St. John's # 464 (was #460 last year in Forbes methodology)
Forbes America's Top Colleges 2017
- Thread starter RedStormNC
- Start date
In Forbes view of us, we are at the top of the bottom third of colleges in the USA.That's embarrassing. What's troubling is that it comes as a surprise to me. The administration owes the alumni an explanation of why we are losing ground and a plan of how they intend to improve our status. I will not change my legacy commitment yet but I will rethink support of an institution that is losing traction.
Don't despair... as with any ranking, it's all about the criteria you choose, and how you prioritize them.
IMO, no real way to legitimately rank all these colleges of varying size, teaching styles, diversity (economic & ethnic) but the magazine's and websites do it, as it brings in revenue/readers hungry for someone to tell them what's best.
Here' Forbes methodology..
Biggest odd criteria that Forbes highly values at 15% of criteria is names on "America's Leaders Lists"...
This is one way they differentiate themselves from US News methodology, but seems to value the exceptions heavily....
The American Leaders List is a compilation of thousands of names of leaders across fields. First, we used the vast FORBES database of leaders and innovators, including names from the most recent renditions of the Forbes 400, Global Gamechangers, Richest Self Made Women, Most Powerful People, Most Powerful Women and 30 Under 30. We then factored in the governmental leaders at the national (Supreme Court justices, congresspeople, etc.) and state (governors) level.
IMO, no real way to legitimately rank all these colleges of varying size, teaching styles, diversity (economic & ethnic) but the magazine's and websites do it, as it brings in revenue/readers hungry for someone to tell them what's best.
Here' Forbes methodology..
Biggest odd criteria that Forbes highly values at 15% of criteria is names on "America's Leaders Lists"...
This is one way they differentiate themselves from US News methodology, but seems to value the exceptions heavily....
The American Leaders List is a compilation of thousands of names of leaders across fields. First, we used the vast FORBES database of leaders and innovators, including names from the most recent renditions of the Forbes 400, Global Gamechangers, Richest Self Made Women, Most Powerful People, Most Powerful Women and 30 Under 30. We then factored in the governmental leaders at the national (Supreme Court justices, congresspeople, etc.) and state (governors) level.
All those schools are in the top 15 percent in the country. Not overall.
Last two years BTW
+ 24 (2016)
-4 (2017)
Overall net gain of +20
* Also confident Bobby will continue to Jack ( pardon my street lingo) more Jesuit deans ( he has no allegiance to the Vincentian anyway).
SJU13 - Is that 15% stat including 2 yr community colleges and/or for-profit schools ?
Also, just saw....Princeton Review came out with their rankings....
St. John's made it to the # 1 in.......... "Students Who Study the Least"
=students-study-least
Both lists are based on students' answers to the survey question: "How many out-of-class hours do you spend studying each day?"
Made Top 20 in these as well
Got Milk? #14
Least Accessible Professors #16
Professors Get Low Marks #16
Scotch and Soda, Hold the Scotch #20
Also, just saw....Princeton Review came out with their rankings....
St. John's made it to the # 1 in.......... "Students Who Study the Least"
=students-study-least
Both lists are based on students' answers to the survey question: "How many out-of-class hours do you spend studying each day?"
Made Top 20 in these as well
Got Milk? #14
Least Accessible Professors #16
Professors Get Low Marks #16
Scotch and Soda, Hold the Scotch #20
I believe Forbes ranks from all 5,400 schools
Other parts
- scotch and soda (means school is a dry campus) as that ranks students who drink hard liquor ( P.S we drink off campus)
- Got milk ( Also goes with dry campus nature ) as that ranks amount of alcohol on campus.
-Least accessible professors ( I agree with this 100 percent, I hated being taught by a teachers aide). But all my professors say they have to do research, rolls eyes ( this ranking I believe 100 percent)
.-Least studying ( Could be the fact, every major at SJU either is liberal arts based, or prepares you for grad school). We don't have engineering here. The only hard majors are accounting and Pharmacy.
* The only thing I care about is this
- The Best 382 Colleges
-Best Northeastern college
-85 out 99 on acceptance rate numbers
We are always heavily penalized in these ratings when alumni giving is considered. In our case, we are woefully small in both % of alumni participating and total contributions. Our mission statement appeals to and recruits middle and low income applicants who are very competitive, but who are also unfamiliar with sharing because of their life circumstances.
That situation most likely changes when they graduate and work in NYC but our kids have never been exposed to that side of life. I have always believed that there is a place in a Vincention College to require a course in the power, the obligation, the reward, and the impact of giving, and the importance of charity in our future role as citizens and alumni of StJ
That situation most likely changes when they graduate and work in NYC but our kids have never been exposed to that side of life. I have always believed that there is a place in a Vincention College to require a course in the power, the obligation, the reward, and the impact of giving, and the importance of charity in our future role as citizens and alumni of StJ
beast of the east
Active member
You are certainly correct in this assertion, and on here we've often repeated this. You must be aware however, that universities with large endowments and strong alumni giving have made huge investments in talented development staff and also successfully engendered a sense of belonging and indebtedness to the school by alumni for the education they received, their college experience, and their subsequent successful careers.
Among SJU alumni there is often not only an ambivalence towards the school but an antipathy towards how we were treated as students and in subsequent years. If not mistreated, certainly there was a tone of indifference towards students by administration. Real or not, these perceptions must be overcome in order to grow an increasingly generous base of alumni and even parents of current students or recent alumni.
When you think that many older alumni paid $2000/year or less for their education, for many the ROI has been nothing short of astronomical. Although everything has gone up in cost, this is simply not a case of a loaf of bread costing a nickel 75 years ago. When SJU was charging $2000/year for tuition, other local Catholic Universities such as Fordham, Manhattan, ST. Francis and others were typically charging far more. For most of us, it wasn't a matter of choosing St. John's over other private universities, it was St. John's or CUNY. That mere fact alone should be a strong reason for alumni to be more generous when considering charitable contributions.
St. John's needs to change it's business model, the new exclesior program signed into law by Gov. Cuomo will have a devestating impact on schools like SJU, Adelphi, St. Francis,Molloy College etc.
The working class will likely choose the public option, and for the most part families making more than $125k a year are not gravitating towards SJU. The question for board members like JSJ and others is, how do we reinvent SJU for the future to attract wealthier families while keeping the mission alive?
My suggestion is to double down on our core competencies(pharmacy, phy asst, computer science, law, accounting, marketing) etc.
Does anyone know if SJU has bloomberg terminals in 2003 we did not?
I know we built these shiny new dorms but what does SJU offer than Queens or Baruch will not?
Maybe sell a faith based education with conservative values in an increasingly secular liberal environment. These are just thoughts and maybe i'm out of touch, but the future appears grim. I pray I'm wrong.
The working class will likely choose the public option, and for the most part families making more than $125k a year are not gravitating towards SJU. The question for board members like JSJ and others is, how do we reinvent SJU for the future to attract wealthier families while keeping the mission alive?
My suggestion is to double down on our core competencies(pharmacy, phy asst, computer science, law, accounting, marketing) etc.
Does anyone know if SJU has bloomberg terminals in 2003 we did not?
I know we built these shiny new dorms but what does SJU offer than Queens or Baruch will not?
Maybe sell a faith based education with conservative values in an increasingly secular liberal environment. These are just thoughts and maybe i'm out of touch, but the future appears grim. I pray I'm wrong.
beast of the east
Active member
I believe that part of the answer to the question you and others raise in terms of overall quality of the university is the following: Does the school want a profitable (or at least break even) business model, or do they want to elevate the academic profile of the university. While every university must do the former, not all universities can or want to improve their academic profile. It remains to be seen just how much SJU wants to, but some of the things I've experienced with administration and the campus in general lead me to believe they are headed in that direction.
SJU is already doubling down on its main programs ( added a applied mathematics and computational degree recently, and is spending money on Risk management and insurance). I can't speak for bobby, but Norean last interview with poets and Quants shows she knows how to play the game. She admitted she's going to put most of the resources towards accounting and Risk management .
Quote by Norean
But what most people don’t know, Sharpe adds, is that St. John’s Tobin College of Business has four underrated academic “pillars” in accounting, tax, risk management, and actuarial science.
My goal is through faculty hiring, curriculum development, fundraising, and scholarships to really enhance those four pillars of St. John’s.
End note, I don't think you older guys are aware of how much the school has been taken over by these Maryland and Cali kids. The School is really attracting out of state kids at a rapid rate. I was cool with it, because I'm born out of state myself, but sheesh.
beast of the east
Active member
Most of us older guys are more concerned with the 40% of students at the bottom, and the 6 years graduation rate than the wonderful students from Maryland and California.
sju grad13, thanks for response sorry getting back so late. Happy we are reaching out of ny market but concerned about cost i just want the school to get better while becoming more affordable.An anecdote from an alum i met with a college aged son over the weekend he looked at sju seriously for his son but the cost was too high(he lives in nassau county) through a solid plan of charitable donations maxing out 401k's /ira's he just made the agi and his son is going to suny new paltz tuition free, (still paying r and b)My point is sju is losing many solid/future alums to the public option.
How do we get better? Distinguish ourselves to make the investment worth it for our sons and daughters? i would love an honest answer from someone from the school on this.
How do we get better? Distinguish ourselves to make the investment worth it for our sons and daughters? i would love an honest answer from someone from the school on this.
beast of the east
Active member
All i can say is that the board is working very hard at this and also concerned about the cost of tuition. Due to some very generous initiatives there is a lot of scholarship money available for Catholic hs students, and in general very good students have received a lot of money.
As i noted elsewhere, sju's % of Cstholic students has sharply increased. This year sju is the 3rc most popular choice among Chaminade grads, a really terrific turn of events.
I dont know if we can ever compete against suny tuition but the more generous alumni are, the lower tuition costs can be.
Rest assured. Sju leadership does share your concerns as far as i know
2018 US News rankings out today. If you thought that last years drop to 160 was a shocker, time to come to terms with the fact that this trend might not reverse. Its just what St. Johns is. Never going to be Villanova or Fordham (or even Seton Hall or Depaul given current trend)
I've always been skeptical of college rankings in general based on subjectivity/weighting of the criteria chosen to measure, but this just stinks.
No shortage of criteria we could improve on, if in fact, there was a concerted effort to do so. I just don't think that's in the administration's fundamental concerns. Think they are just fine with the bottom academic qualifiers getting by in questionable programs to bring in tuition and revenue. I'd also assume this transfers over into less than average alumni donation rates which are another measure.
Our 4 year grad rate of 37% is just awful. I don't recall last year, but % just seems worse off memory.
No shortage of criteria we could improve on, if in fact, there was a concerted effort to do so. I just don't think that's in the administration's fundamental concerns. Think they are just fine with the bottom academic qualifiers getting by in questionable programs to bring in tuition and revenue. I'd also assume this transfers over into less than average alumni donation rates which are another measure.
Our 4 year grad rate of 37% is just awful. I don't recall last year, but % just seems worse off memory.
I don't recall us being that far back but maybe others recall.
Here's an new article questioning US News criteria & weightings
While I agree with a lot of this, the unfortunate part is that US News, more than others, has developed credibility in #'s, and perception to masses in one #, becomes reality.
With new waves of rankings and millenials, we can only hope some of up & coming rankings sites take a different twist to shape the game of US News & Forbes. The only ones I think can do that are where students vite and comment.
Here's an new article questioning US News criteria & weightings
While I agree with a lot of this, the unfortunate part is that US News, more than others, has developed credibility in #'s, and perception to masses in one #, becomes reality.
With new waves of rankings and millenials, we can only hope some of up & coming rankings sites take a different twist to shape the game of US News & Forbes. The only ones I think can do that are where students vite and comment.