Cheick Diallo, C

[Class of 72]

If Jordan leaves we are in a rebuilding year next year even if we sign Diallo. If Jordan and Obekpa leave it will be even tougher. If they both leave and we don't sign Diallo, we will have the weakest team that Lavin has coached.

If we lose our six main players our team next year will get their brains beaten in more often than not. Even if Chris comes back we will be very very bad.

Maybe the worst SJU Team ever.

Lack of depth, lack of experience and lack of talent....and it's not like Lavin's second yeAr where it's a fresh start and he has a clean slate and a recruiting class loaded with talent.

This is why it was so crucial to have kids already here playing in the rotation and ready ready to step in and take a more prominent role on the team replace Harrison, pointer, Jordan (if he goes) etc.

Now we are scrambling around again for the usual cast of characters who won't qualify, were accused of sexual assault at the last school they were at, 100 pounds overweight, and so on and so forth.

Recipe for a disaster, not only next year, but the year after that too since Marquette is now on a roll recruiting, Nova is still killing it, GTown has better players, Seton Hall even has Whitehead who despite his issues has a HUGE upside......blah blah blah

Which is why even if we go to the NCAAS this year I think Lavin needs to go because the long term shape of the program is very very bad and that falls right on Lavin.

This is where you, me and the other half of this forum disagree. If the goal of any program is the post season, whether you are lucky to be in the NCAA or NIT, and to secure a ranked recruiting class then people need a reality check. Norm Roberts never approached a 20 win season in 6 years. Mike Jarvis turned into a recruiting disaster his final 2 years. We expected to become the UCLA of the East with Lavin and are now delusional to think a Masiello or a Cluess would turn us into a Villanova.
I was not thrilled with the wizard's hiring because he was out of coaching for so many years and was pushing hard for a guy named McKillop but I did not get who I wanted.
When we exclude the year Lavin did not coach this is his record:
2010–11 21–12   NCAA
2012–13 17–16 NIT
2013–14 20–13 NIT

This year he is poised to win 20 games again with a 6 man team and no bench. I know some people keep harping about his salary but you know and pops knows that is not the issue here. We were damaged goods in the basketball world for 7 straight years before Lavin and never won 20 games nor had a ranked recruiting class in the previous 9 years. My position has been the same since last Spring and that is to get the recruits and while you would like to burn the house down and rebuild over the next 4 years I do not think the powers in the Big East or the redmen supporters without personal agendas really want that "start at the bottom" mentality from the school in the capital of the Big East
Comparing us to Kentucky, Duke or even Villanova is disingenuous given our disgraceful past history.
Let's see who Lavin can sign before declaring surrender in the conference and before we know who returns. I agree last year's recruiting blunder has hurt us big time but our brand name was discounted long long ago and any further discounts will render St. John's incapable of ever competing on the national stage again.
The bottom line is beware of what you wish for.

You can't use norm as a barometer since he is the worst coach ever.

And if you use Jarvis as a barometer his overall body of work at SJU crushes Lavin's. If SL did what Jarvis did here everyone would be happy and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You can't omit the year he sat out from his record because they were still his players here ruined and had he "coached" the outcome very likely would have been the same.

How about this: we were 16-8/8-5 two years ago and in position to make a ru. Tot me NCAAs when we finished the season off with five straight losses and an opening round loss in the BET.

Then last year with the most talented SJU team since 99-00 we go to the NIT in a BE Conference that is a shell of what it once was, along the way losing must win games in our building vs Xavier and Providence. Then we are embarrassed by Robert Morris in the NIT.

Now once again, we have a very very talented roster and we aren't even a lock for the NCAAs yet and we are a disasterous week away from being in the NIT.

You can say there has been marked improvement but I will call it marked underachievement.

I also wouldn't say its not about the money. Lavin makes 2 mill and his assistants are making 3-4 k. Whitesell chiles Hines Keady etc - the most overpaid staff in America.

So even if we return to the NCAAs this year it will more than likely be for a game or two maximum and then we will have another three to four year drought again, just like the last time we went and SJU can do better than that. I'm sorry but sports is a results driven business and Lavin's results haven't cut it.

We can agree to disagree.

As for Diallo, unless the coaches name is Hoiberg or Calipari this kid is not coming. Not the greatest loss imo.
As for Jarvis, you know that once Fran's recruits left his final 3 full years were without any major high recruits and let me know if this record looks familiar:

2000–01 St. John's 14–15** 8–8**
2001–02 St. John's 20–12** 9–7**
2002–03 St. John's 21–13** 7–9**

 

[boo haarvey]

If Jordan leaves we are in a rebuilding year next year even if we sign Diallo. If Jordan and Obekpa leave it will be even tougher. If they both leave and we don't sign Diallo, we will have the weakest team that Lavin has coached.

If we lose our six main players our team next year will get their brains beaten in more often than not. Even if Chris comes back we will be very very bad.

Maybe the worst SJU Team ever.

Lack of depth, lack of experience and lack of talent....and it's not like Lavin's second yeAr where it's a fresh start and he has a clean slate and a recruiting class loaded with talent.

This is why it was so crucial to have kids already here playing in the rotation and ready ready to step in and take a more prominent role on the team replace Harrison, pointer, Jordan (if he goes) etc.

Now we are scrambling around again for the usual cast of characters who won't qualify, were accused of sexual assault at the last school they were at, 100 pounds overweight, and so on and so forth.

Recipe for a disaster, not only next year, but the year after that too since Marquette is now on a roll recruiting, Nova is still killing it, GTown has better players, Seton Hall even has Whitehead who despite his issues has a HUGE upside......blah blah blah

Which is why even if we go to the NCAAS this year I think Lavin needs to go because the long term shape of the program is very very bad and that falls right on Lavin.

This is where you, me and the other half of this forum disagree. If the goal of any program is the post season, whether you are lucky to be in the NCAA or NIT, and to secure a ranked recruiting class then people need a reality check. Norm Roberts never approached a 20 win season in 6 years. Mike Jarvis turned into a recruiting disaster his final 2 years. We expected to become the UCLA of the East with Lavin and are now delusional to think a Masiello or a Cluess would turn us into a Villanova.
I was not thrilled with the wizard's hiring because he was out of coaching for so many years and was pushing hard for a guy named McKillop but I did not get who I wanted.
When we exclude the year Lavin did not coach this is his record:
2010–11 21–12   NCAA
2012–13 17–16 NIT
2013–14 20–13 NIT

This year he is poised to win 20 games again with a 6 man team and no bench. I know some people keep harping about his salary but you know and pops knows that is not the issue here. We were damaged goods in the basketball world for 7 straight years before Lavin and never won 20 games nor had a ranked recruiting class in the previous 9 years. My position has been the same since last Spring and that is to get the recruits and while you would like to burn the house down and rebuild over the next 4 years I do not think the powers in the Big East or the redmen supporters without personal agendas really want that "start at the bottom" mentality from the school in the capital of the Big East
Comparing us to Kentucky, Duke or even Villanova is disingenuous given our disgraceful past history.
Let's see who Lavin can sign before declaring surrender in the conference and before we know who returns. I agree last year's recruiting blunder has hurt us big time but our brand name was discounted long long ago and any further discounts will render St. John's incapable of ever competing on the national stage again.
The bottom line is beware of what you wish for.

You can't use norm as a barometer since he is the worst coach ever.

And if you use Jarvis as a barometer his overall body of work at SJU crushes Lavin's. If SL did what Jarvis did here everyone would be happy and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You can't omit the year he sat out from his record because they were still his players here ruined and had he "coached" the outcome very likely would have been the same.

How about this: we were 16-8/8-5 two years ago and in position to make a ru. Tot me NCAAs when we finished the season off with five straight losses and an opening round loss in the BET.

Then last year with the most talented SJU team since 99-00 we go to the NIT in a BE Conference that is a shell of what it once was, along the way losing must win games in our building vs Xavier and Providence. Then we are embarrassed by Robert Morris in the NIT.

Now once again, we have a very very talented roster and we aren't even a lock for the NCAAs yet and we are a disasterous week away from being in the NIT.

You can say there has been marked improvement but I will call it marked underachievement.

I also wouldn't say its not about the money. Lavin makes 2 mill and his assistants are making 3-4 k. Whitesell chiles Hines Keady etc - the most overpaid staff in America.

So even if we return to the NCAAs this year it will more than likely be for a game or two maximum and then we will have another three to four year drought again, just like the last time we went and SJU can do better than that. I'm sorry but sports is a results driven business and Lavin's results haven't cut it.

We can agree to disagree.

As for Diallo, unless the coaches name is Hoiberg or Calipari this kid is not coming. Not the greatest loss imo.
As for Jarvis, you know that once Fran's recruits left his final 3 full years were without any major high recruits and let me know if this record looks familiar:

2000–01 St. John's 14–15** 8–8**
2001–02 St. John's 20–12** 9–7**
2002–03 St. John's 21–13** 7–9**

I believe Cook and Ingram were McDonald's All Americans. Willie Shaw was a high-level recruit as was Hatten from Juco. Showtime Hill was also a pretty big recruit and Hamilton was fairly high as well. Not defending Jarvis, but let's try to be objective.

 

[Class of 72]

If Jordan leaves we are in a rebuilding year next year even if we sign Diallo. If Jordan and Obekpa leave it will be even tougher. If they both leave and we don't sign Diallo, we will have the weakest team that Lavin has coached.

If we lose our six main players our team next year will get their brains beaten in more often than not. Even if Chris comes back we will be very very bad.

Maybe the worst SJU Team ever.

Lack of depth, lack of experience and lack of talent....and it's not like Lavin's second yeAr where it's a fresh start and he has a clean slate and a recruiting class loaded with talent.

This is why it was so crucial to have kids already here playing in the rotation and ready ready to step in and take a more prominent role on the team replace Harrison, pointer, Jordan (if he goes) etc.

Now we are scrambling around again for the usual cast of characters who won't qualify, were accused of sexual assault at the last school they were at, 100 pounds overweight, and so on and so forth.

Recipe for a disaster, not only next year, but the year after that too since Marquette is now on a roll recruiting, Nova is still killing it, GTown has better players, Seton Hall even has Whitehead who despite his issues has a HUGE upside......blah blah blah

Which is why even if we go to the NCAAS this year I think Lavin needs to go because the long term shape of the program is very very bad and that falls right on Lavin.

This is where you, me and the other half of this forum disagree. If the goal of any program is the post season, whether you are lucky to be in the NCAA or NIT, and to secure a ranked recruiting class then people need a reality check. Norm Roberts never approached a 20 win season in 6 years. Mike Jarvis turned into a recruiting disaster his final 2 years. We expected to become the UCLA of the East with Lavin and are now delusional to think a Masiello or a Cluess would turn us into a Villanova.
I was not thrilled with the wizard's hiring because he was out of coaching for so many years and was pushing hard for a guy named McKillop but I did not get who I wanted.
When we exclude the year Lavin did not coach this is his record:
2010–11 21–12   NCAA
2012–13 17–16 NIT
2013–14 20–13 NIT

This year he is poised to win 20 games again with a 6 man team and no bench. I know some people keep harping about his salary but you know and pops knows that is not the issue here. We were damaged goods in the basketball world for 7 straight years before Lavin and never won 20 games nor had a ranked recruiting class in the previous 9 years. My position has been the same since last Spring and that is to get the recruits and while you would like to burn the house down and rebuild over the next 4 years I do not think the powers in the Big East or the redmen supporters without personal agendas really want that "start at the bottom" mentality from the school in the capital of the Big East
Comparing us to Kentucky, Duke or even Villanova is disingenuous given our disgraceful past history.
Let's see who Lavin can sign before declaring surrender in the conference and before we know who returns. I agree last year's recruiting blunder has hurt us big time but our brand name was discounted long long ago and any further discounts will render St. John's incapable of ever competing on the national stage again.
The bottom line is beware of what you wish for.

You can't use norm as a barometer since he is the worst coach ever.

And if you use Jarvis as a barometer his overall body of work at SJU crushes Lavin's. If SL did what Jarvis did here everyone would be happy and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You can't omit the year he sat out from his record because they were still his players here ruined and had he "coached" the outcome very likely would have been the same.

How about this: we were 16-8/8-5 two years ago and in position to make a ru. Tot me NCAAs when we finished the season off with five straight losses and an opening round loss in the BET.

Then last year with the most talented SJU team since 99-00 we go to the NIT in a BE Conference that is a shell of what it once was, along the way losing must win games in our building vs Xavier and Providence. Then we are embarrassed by Robert Morris in the NIT.

Now once again, we have a very very talented roster and we aren't even a lock for the NCAAs yet and we are a disasterous week away from being in the NIT.

You can say there has been marked improvement but I will call it marked underachievement.

I also wouldn't say its not about the money. Lavin makes 2 mill and his assistants are making 3-4 k. Whitesell chiles Hines Keady etc - the most overpaid staff in America.

So even if we return to the NCAAs this year it will more than likely be for a game or two maximum and then we will have another three to four year drought again, just like the last time we went and SJU can do better than that. I'm sorry but sports is a results driven business and Lavin's results haven't cut it.

We can agree to disagree.

As for Diallo, unless the coaches name is Hoiberg or Calipari this kid is not coming. Not the greatest loss imo.
As for Jarvis, you know that once Fran's recruits left his final 3 full years were without any major high recruits and let me know if this record looks familiar:

2000–01 St. John's 14–15** 8–8**
2001–02 St. John's 20–12** 9–7**
2002–03 St. John's 21–13** 7–9**

I believe Cook and Ingram were McDonald's All Americans. Willie Shaw was a high-level recruit as was Hatten from Juco. Showtime Hill was also a pretty big recruit and Hamilton was fairly high as well. Not defending Jarvis, but let's try to be objective.

I left Cook and Ingram out since they were part of an endemic problem with Jarvis recruits, like Willie,
and the above record his last 3 years were examples of gross underachievement. If that record was "crushing it" then throw objectivity out the window. Btw, Hit wants me to include the year Lavin did not coach because they were his players. Then let us include Jarvis final year when St. John's went 6-21 which was the worst record in school history.**
**St. John's vacated 47 games (46 wins and one loss) from 2000 to 2004 after Abe Keita was ruled ineligible. Official records are 5-15 for 2000-01, 7-11 for 2001-02, 1-13 for 2002-03 and 0-4 for 2003-04.

 

[redken]

If Jordan leaves we are in a rebuilding year next year even if we sign Diallo. If Jordan and Obekpa leave it will be even tougher. If they both leave and we don't sign Diallo, we will have the weakest team that Lavin has coached.

If we lose our six main players our team next year will get their brains beaten in more often than not. Even if Chris comes back we will be very very bad.

Maybe the worst SJU Team ever.

Lack of depth, lack of experience and lack of talent....and it's not like Lavin's second yeAr where it's a fresh start and he has a clean slate and a recruiting class loaded with talent.

This is why it was so crucial to have kids already here playing in the rotation and ready ready to step in and take a more prominent role on the team replace Harrison, pointer, Jordan (if he goes) etc.

Now we are scrambling around again for the usual cast of characters who won't qualify, were accused of sexual assault at the last school they were at, 100 pounds overweight, and so on and so forth.

Recipe for a disaster, not only next year, but the year after that too since Marquette is now on a roll recruiting, Nova is still killing it, GTown has better players, Seton Hall even has Whitehead who despite his issues has a HUGE upside......blah blah blah

Which is why even if we go to the NCAAS this year I think Lavin needs to go because the long term shape of the program is very very bad and that falls right on Lavin.

This is where you, me and the other half of this forum disagree. If the goal of any program is the post season, whether you are lucky to be in the NCAA or NIT, and to secure a ranked recruiting class then people need a reality check. Norm Roberts never approached a 20 win season in 6 years. Mike Jarvis turned into a recruiting disaster his final 2 years. We expected to become the UCLA of the East with Lavin and are now delusional to think a Masiello or a Cluess would turn us into a Villanova.
I was not thrilled with the wizard's hiring because he was out of coaching for so many years and was pushing hard for a guy named McKillop but I did not get who I wanted.
When we exclude the year Lavin did not coach this is his record:
2010–11 21–12   NCAA
2012–13 17–16 NIT
2013–14 20–13 NIT

This year he is poised to win 20 games again with a 6 man team and no bench. I know some people keep harping about his salary but you know and pops knows that is not the issue here. We were damaged goods in the basketball world for 7 straight years before Lavin and never won 20 games nor had a ranked recruiting class in the previous 9 years. My position has been the same since last Spring and that is to get the recruits and while you would like to burn the house down and rebuild over the next 4 years I do not think the powers in the Big East or the redmen supporters without personal agendas really want that "start at the bottom" mentality from the school in the capital of the Big East
Comparing us to Kentucky, Duke or even Villanova is disingenuous given our disgraceful past history.
Let's see who Lavin can sign before declaring surrender in the conference and before we know who returns. I agree last year's recruiting blunder has hurt us big time but our brand name was discounted long long ago and any further discounts will render St. John's incapable of ever competing on the national stage again.
The bottom line is beware of what you wish for.

You can't use norm as a barometer since he is the worst coach ever.

And if you use Jarvis as a barometer his overall body of work at SJU crushes Lavin's. If SL did what Jarvis did here everyone would be happy and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You can't omit the year he sat out from his record because they were still his players here ruined and had he "coached" the outcome very likely would have been the same.

How about this: we were 16-8/8-5 two years ago and in position to make a ru. Tot me NCAAs when we finished the season off with five straight losses and an opening round loss in the BET.

Then last year with the most talented SJU team since 99-00 we go to the NIT in a BE Conference that is a shell of what it once was, along the way losing must win games in our building vs Xavier and Providence. Then we are embarrassed by Robert Morris in the NIT.

Now once again, we have a very very talented roster and we aren't even a lock for the NCAAs yet and we are a disasterous week away from being in the NIT.

You can say there has been marked improvement but I will call it marked underachievement.

I also wouldn't say its not about the money. Lavin makes 2 mill and his assistants are making 3-4 k. Whitesell chiles Hines Keady etc - the most overpaid staff in America.

So even if we return to the NCAAs this year it will more than likely be for a game or two maximum and then we will have another three to four year drought again, just like the last time we went and SJU can do better than that. I'm sorry but sports is a results driven business and Lavin's results haven't cut it.

We can agree to disagree.

As for Diallo, unless the coaches name is Hoiberg or Calipari this kid is not coming. Not the greatest loss imo.
As for Jarvis, you know that once Fran's recruits left his final 3 full years were without any major high recruits and let me know if this record looks familiar:

2000–01 St. John's 14–15** 8–8**
2001–02 St. John's 20–12** 9–7**
2002–03 St. John's 21–13** 7–9**

I believe Cook and Ingram were McDonald's All Americans. Willie Shaw was a high-level recruit as was Hatten from Juco. Showtime Hill was also a pretty big recruit and Hamilton was fairly high as well. Not defending Jarvis, but let's try to be objective.

I left Cook and Ingram out since they were part of an endemic problem with Jarvis recruits, like Willie,
and the above record his last 3 years were examples of gross underachievement. If that record was "crushing it" then throw objectivity out the window. Btw, Hit wants me to include the year Lavin did not coach because they were his players. Then let us include Jarvis final year when St. John's went 6-21 which was the worst record in school history.**
**St. John's vacated 47 games (46 wins and one loss) from 2000 to 2004 after Abe Keita was ruled ineligible. Official records are 5-15 for 2000-01, 7-11 for 2001-02, 1-13 for 2002-03 and 0-4 for 2003-04.

My blood still boils when I see Abe Keita's name. Given his lack of talent, it's hard to believe we were paying him, not the other way around.

 

[austour]

Can I ask a quick question. Does that mean that over those seasons the team was 46-1 with Abe Keita and 13-43 without Abe Keita? That seems really odd.

 

[JacStorm]

I went to see Keita in a high school all star game. Called my friend after the game to say that he was the only player I'd ever seen have 3 dunks blocked in one game… by the rim.

I did talk to him a bit, though. Seemed like a really nice kid.

 

[we are sju]

Do you think once Hatten found out Keita was getting paid, did he try to retroactively renegotiate?

 

[redfan259999888]

Only way I'd accept Lavin back.

Not only make the NCAA Tourney, but atleast win a game. We have won a freaking NCAA game in 15 lonnnnng years, so if they do that then Lavin/SJU would have done something that hasn't happened since March 17th, 2000.

Secondly, get top recruits to come. I want some hope for the future you know. Yeah, I know that being freshmen that they won't do much, but atleast there is hope for year two. The thing that really bothers me, is that if he returns then it will be his 6th year, htf is it possible to be the youngest team all over again. Maybe taking a year off for being lazy???

He has to achieve both or he must leave. Yeah, I'll hear, oh he brought us back to respectability, he got us 20 wins, atleast we go the the NIT now (like that's some big accomplishment.). Hey if you guys want to settle for that then go ahead. There's nothing wrong with settling.

But if you want to be considered with the big boys then you gotta do big boy things, stop settling.

 

[ras]

I hate having negative banter in a recruits thread. Specifically an elite recruit.