Carnesecca Arena Gripes

[Franny80]

It appears we are at that point in the season when renovating CA becomes a topic again.  Oddly, this comes at a time once again when the program is going nowhere fast in terms of post-season appearance so I guess it is just a distraction from the reality of being a moribund program with little hope of becoming a national power anytime soon.

Some proposals on the main board include razing CA and building a new arena, modernizing the interior arena, expanding the existing arena or just adding additional chair seats.
Reality check is in order for the many contributors to this topic!
*Carnesecca, even for elite visiting teams, rarely sells out. That is with a capacity of 5,600.
*Most college arenas are in the 5-8,000 capacity range. Forget the 15,000 seat state built arenas built on remote college campuses with 30,000 students living with walking distance.
*Successful programs that send their mens team to the NCAA tournament annually have gyms as big or smaller than CA. Gonzaga and Davidson come to mind. Baylor, a perennial power is constructing a new arena. The capacity will be 7,000.
* MSG is our declared "home" arena. It's capacity rivals all major elite programs. UBS, just opened down the road and will host games going forward.
*College arenas only work when attending games for students is built into the culture like at Duke and Gonzaga. St. John's still needs "incentives" on a campus with literally nothing else going on.

What to expect for a future Carnesecca Arena:
*seat backs AND expansion of the arena at both ends of the court in the long term. I would make all the new behind the basket free to students. They would not have seat backs to encourage standing.
*the expanded arena would hold 7,000 for basketball which would be one of the largest non-state school arenas in the country.

Finally, winning and building a winning culture sells out arenas. The new president and AD come from that culture.  Let's first start winning because no campus arena is what closes the deal with recruits.

Further discussion from main board comments.....

 

[ohiofan]

Way to go, Fran Sancisco. Hey, i'm not in my mother's basement anymore

 

[bamafan]

Thanks for the paragraphs and spacing. /media/kunena/emoticons/wink.png

 

[Franny80]

Way to go, Fran Sancisco. Hey, i'm not in my mother's basement anymore

Good for you Ohio. She must miss you.
 

 

[Franny80]

I hope this post finally puts to rest any fantasy about a new on campus arena.
Look at it this way, the best schools in America play in the smallest college gyms in the Ivy League. Jadwin and the Palestra are outliers.
The University of Miami built a brand new arena in 2003 that holds only 7,900.  It rarely sells out.
Campus arenas should be focused on student fans who can tolerate heat and who rarely sit. 1,000 seats with backs should be enough for the older monied fans.
Finally, should MSG ever cease to be our home arena, UBS which is near Campus would become our home court..
If St. John's is going to spend 100 million dollars it should use the Ivy League model and spend it on academics and students.


 

 

[ohiofan]

[URL]https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q[/URL]=i+left+my+heart+in+fan+sanciscodean+martin&view=detail&mid=2AB5A6EB6A2E2C3550672AB5A6EB6A2E2C355067&FORM=VIRE]I Left My Heart In San Francisco (live) - the Rat Pack and friends (Dean Martin). - Bing video[/url]

 

[Franny80]

Of all the crazy suggestions the wackiest is fans discussing the possibility of using the Nassau Coliseum as our home arena.  
1.  Hofstra is adjacent to the coliseum and they don't even consider it for games!
2. The coliseum is 17 miles from campus.
3. UBS arena is 6 miles and 15 minutes from campus. It is the only logical choice for an option to MSG. Easy shuttle bus for students.
4. Carnesecca Arena has room to expand behind the end walls on both ends of the arena but the cost would be prohibitive.
5. Carnesecca has room to shrink to 5,000 by adding more seat backs because it is not our home court of record in the Big East.
 

 

[beast of the east]

Of all the crazy suggestions the wackiest is fans discussing the possibility of using the Nassau Coliseum as our home arena.  
1.  Hofstra is adjacent to the coliseum and they don't even consider it for games!
2. The coliseum is 17 miles from campus.
3. UBS arena is 6 miles and 15 minutes from campus. It is the only logical choice for an option to MSG. Easy shuttle bus for students.
4. Carnesecca Arena has room to expand behind the end walls on both ends of the arena but the cost would be prohibitive.
5. Carnesecca has room to shrink to 5,000 by adding more seat backs because it is not our home court of record in the Big East.


 

Here's the likelihood of what would happen should we add seatbacks in the lower section:  
1. The prices for those seats will rise to the same level as the existing seatback chairs, and will be distributed on a priority point basis to existing season ticket holders.
2. Some of the existing season ticket holders in the lower bleachers will be relocated to the second level, likely causing a high percentage of cancellations.
3.  Few of those who are most unhappy about no seatbacks would have access to them because of the anticipated demand and distribution of seatback tickets on a priority point basis.

There is actually a 4th consideration, and that is if we don't start making a decent showing at MSG, it is reasonable to think that some of those games with the lowest overall attendance get moved to CA, where costs are lower and we have a real home court advantage.

 

[Franny80]

Of all the crazy suggestions the wackiest is fans discussing the possibility of using the Nassau Coliseum as our home arena.  
1.  Hofstra is adjacent to the coliseum and they don't even consider it for games!
2. The coliseum is 17 miles from campus.
3. UBS arena is 6 miles and 15 minutes from campus. It is the only logical choice for an option to MSG. Easy shuttle bus for students.
4. Carnesecca Arena has room to expand behind the end walls on both ends of the arena but the cost would be prohibitive.
5. Carnesecca has room to shrink to 5,000 by adding more seat backs because it is not our home court of record in the Big East.




 

Here's the likelihood of what would happen should we add seatbacks in the lower section:  
1. The prices for those seats will rise to the same level as the existing seatback chairs, and will be distributed on a priority point basis to existing season ticket holders.
2. Some of the existing season ticket holders in the lower bleachers will be relocated to the second level, likely causing a high percentage of cancellations.
3.  Few of those who are most unhappy about no seatbacks would have access to them because of the anticipated demand and distribution of seatback tickets on a priority point basis.

There is actually a 4th consideration, and that is if we don't start making a decent showing at MSG, it is reasonable to think that some of those games with the lowest overall attendance get moved to CA, where costs are lower and we have a real home court advantage.

Just to make sure we are on the same page regarding the current seating accommodations, I am considering adding seat backs to the middle level and not the lower folding bleacher section opposite the seat back lower level.
This would create a completely new tier of seating.
These would be fixed seats.  Many season ticket holders in the lower section would likely like moving up at the same ticket prices as they now pay.  Those who wish to remain in the backless lower section should see a price decrease.  We are not talking millions of dollars.
If even this conservative modernization is cause to hem and haw, I suggest fans stop bitching and moaning.
I find Carnesecca a great college gym and certainly with the new molded seats everywhere not as uncomfortable for most fans under the age of 50.
Finally, the seating at Carnesecca is the least of St. John's basketball problems when it comes to attendance.
If this was a "consistent" winning program, nobody would be discussing seat comfort because fans would be happy just to get into the arena like they do at Cameron.

 

[beast of the east]

Of all the crazy suggestions the wackiest is fans discussing the possibility of using the Nassau Coliseum as our home arena.  
1.  Hofstra is adjacent to the coliseum and they don't even consider it for games!
2. The coliseum is 17 miles from campus.
3. UBS arena is 6 miles and 15 minutes from campus. It is the only logical choice for an option to MSG. Easy shuttle bus for students.
4. Carnesecca Arena has room to expand behind the end walls on both ends of the arena but the cost would be prohibitive.
5. Carnesecca has room to shrink to 5,000 by adding more seat backs because it is not our home court of record in the Big East.





 

Here's the likelihood of what would happen should we add seatbacks in the lower section:  
1. The prices for those seats will rise to the same level as the existing seatback chairs, and will be distributed on a priority point basis to existing season ticket holders.
2. Some of the existing season ticket holders in the lower bleachers will be relocated to the second level, likely causing a high percentage of cancellations.
3.  Few of those who are most unhappy about no seatbacks would have access to them because of the anticipated demand and distribution of seatback tickets on a priority point basis.

There is actually a 4th consideration, and that is if we don't start making a decent showing at MSG, it is reasonable to think that some of those games with the lowest overall attendance get moved to CA, where costs are lower and we have a real home court advantage.

Just to make sure we are on the same page regarding the current seating accommodations, I am considering adding seat backs to the middle level and not the lower folding bleacher section opposite the seat back lower level.
This would create a completely new tier of seating.
These would be fixed seats.  Many season ticket holders in the lower section would likely like moving up at the same ticket prices as they now pay.  Those who wish to remain in the backless lower section should see a price decrease.  We are not talking millions of dollars.
If even this conservative modernization is cause to hem and haw, I suggest fans stop bitching and moaning.
I find Carnesecca a great college gym and certainly with the new molded seats everywhere not as uncomfortable for most fans under the age of 50.
Finally, the seating at Carnesecca is the least of St. John's basketball problems when it comes to attendance.
If this was a "consistent" winning program, nobody would be discussing seat comfort because fans would be happy just to get into the arena like they do at Cameron.

Not sure which bleachers you mean. The folding bleachers were eliminated in 2008. Do the new bleachers fold?

Not sure reducing capacity is in the works. Far more likely to explore arena expansion but I believe when cragg got here he hired an engineer to do a feasibility study on expansion.

Your idea is interesting. Run it by the AD. he's typically way ahead of me

 

[Franny80]

Beast , I believe that the lower non-seatback bleacher retracts. I was recommending that the section be left as is. I am referring to adding permanent seats to middle level seating area on the same side as the current seat back section on the floor.  
If the capacity in that section was reduced to 700 seats and ordering the installation of seats at $1,000 per seat, it would cost $700,000.
The last time they "modernized" Carnesecca it costs 30 million dollars.  We got taken to the cleaners for what we got and I'm surprised no one was called to task on where the money actually was spent.


[attachment=2447]whatsapp_image_2019-08-14_at_18.40.071.jpeg[/attachment]

 

[bamafan]

That 30 million was reduced to 5 million and I'd still like to know where that money went.

 

[beast of the east]

That 30 million was reduced to 5 million and I'd still like to know where that money went.
 

I'm sure you are joking but what $30 million?

I am thinking that the structure
Of the upper level would not be as simple as putting seats where the bleachers were. Honestly I dont even think seats would cause many tv viewers to come to ganes

 

[austour]

That 30 million was reduced to 5 million and I'd still like to know where that money went.

 

I'm sure you are joking but what $30 million?

I am thinking that the structure
Of the upper level would not be as simple as putting seats where the bleachers were. Honestly I dont even think seats would cause many tv viewers to come to ganes
 

But it would make all the season ticket holders, who are going to buy the tickets regardless of the quality of the seat if the quality of the play is good enough, happy, well except the 400 of them who would have to move away from courtside.

 

[Franny80]

That 30 million was reduced to 5 million and I'd still like to know where that money went.

 

I'm sure you are joking but what $30 million?

I am thinking that the structure
Of the upper level would not be as simple as putting seats where the bleachers were. Honestly I dont even think seats would cause many tv viewers to come to ganes

Who said we are looking to TV viewers as a target fan presence?  
The upper tiers of CA arena are cement blocks which now have just a plastic seat WITHOUT the back.  They could have designed a half back seat in the current configuration and we wouldn't be even having this discussion.  Like all things at CA they are  day late and $5,000,000 short of creating a more comfortable fan experience. 

The goal is to get more students to attend games but unfortunately the basketball team does not inspire a following because it is not seen as winning program.  Winning brings fans, both students and the casual fans wanting to witness great basketball.
 

 

[beast of the east]

That 30 million was reduced to 5 million and I'd still like to know where that money went.


 

I'm sure you are joking but what $30 million?

I am thinking that the structure
Of the upper level would not be as simple as putting seats where the bleachers were. Honestly I dont even think seats would cause many tv viewers to come to ganes

Who said we are looking to TV viewers as a target fan presence?  
The upper tiers of CA arena are cement blocks which now have just a plastic seat WITHOUT the back.  They could have designed a half back seat in the current configuration and we wouldn't be even having this discussion.  Like all things at CA they are  day late and $5,000,000 short of creating a more comfortable fan experience. 

The goal is to get more students to attend games but unfortunately the basketball team does not inspire a following because it is not seen as winning program.  Winning brings fans, both students and the casual fans wanting to witness great basketball.

 

So who are the seatbacks for?    Existing ticketholders who would move to the upper sections  if they want a seatback?
I'm not arguing, I am trying to understand.   I believe the lower bleachers currently  are sold out, correcT?

 

 

[bamafan]

That 30 million was reduced to 5 million and I'd still like to know where that money went.

 

I'm sure you are joking but what $30 million?

I am thinking that the structure
Of the upper level would not be as simple as putting seats where the bleachers were. Honestly I dont even think seats would cause many tv viewers to come to ganes

I was referring to the previous post that mentioned 30 million. Supposedly we spent 5 but I have my doubts it was all spent on CA.

 

[Franny80]

That 30 million was reduced to 5 million and I'd still like to know where that money went.


 

I'm sure you are joking but what $30 million?

I am thinking that the structure
Of the upper level would not be as simple as putting seats where the bleachers were. Honestly I dont even think seats would cause many tv viewers to come to ganes

I was referring to the previous post that mentioned 30 million. Supposedly we spent 5 but I have my doubts it was all spent on CA.

This is posted on the official redstorm sports website:
"Beginning in 2005, Carnesecca Arena underwent more than $30 million of renovations in a three-year period. The new floor plan expanded the lobby of Carnesecca Arena, which now honors past and present St. John's teams with displays of championship hardware. New ticket windows were stationed outside the front entrance allowing easy access for fans, while creating a better traffic flow for large crowds. The building features the newly opened Student-Athlete Center for Excellence, a weight room for varsity athletes, a cardiovascular room, locker rooms, as well as office and meeting space for coaches and administrators. In addition, the arena now has a center-hung scoreboard and refurbished locker rooms. The remodeled arena officially opened in 2008 and currently ranks as the fourth-largest indoor arena in the Metropolitan area with a seating capacity of 5,602. "


 

 

[beast of the east]

That 30 million was reduced to 5 million and I'd still like to know where that money went.


 

I'm sure you are joking but what $30 million?

I am thinking that the structure
Of the upper level would not be as simple as putting seats where the bleachers were. Honestly I dont even think seats would cause many tv viewers to come to ganes

I was referring to the previous post that mentioned 30 million. Supposedly we spent 5 but I have my doubts it was all spent on CA.

Given the timing it probably included the construction of taffner, the current athletic department offices, and meeting rooms.

 

[Franny80]

That 30 million was reduced to 5 million and I'd still like to know where that money went.




 

I'm sure you are joking but what $30 million?

I am thinking that the structure
Of the upper level would not be as simple as putting seats where the bleachers were. Honestly I dont even think seats would cause many tv viewers to come to ganes

I was referring to the previous post that mentioned 30 million. Supposedly we spent 5 but I have my doubts it was all spent on CA.

Given the timing it probably included the construction of taffner, the current athletic department offices, and meeting rooms.

I tend to agree with you that they likely included the Taffner project but it is very questionable reporting to mention only Carnesecca arena to make it look like they did  more than was actually done to upgrade the arena.  Even if that was the case, it would imply that St. John's spent $14,000,000 on Carnesecca arena which is absurd even if they used inflated union shop costs at the time.
Finally, you imply that any costs of renovating CA like seat backs should be passed on to fans.  WHY ?  The dollars used would have been "donated" funds. If they can't raise the funds then leave the arena alone and schedule some non conference home games at UBS against Q1 opponents.