Big East / Greed & Selfishness
- Thread starter jerseyshorejohnny
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redmen2014champs
Member
Love "Hoops" Weiss. My favorite part of the article was, "We will always have lasting memories of 20,000 Syracuse and Georgetown fans rising as one for the final three minutes of overtime". I had goosebumps at the Garden watching this game and knowing this is what college basketball is supposed to be all about. The only thing he had wrong was that there certainly weren't only Syracuse and G'town fans. Many of the fans were obviously Louisville and Irish fans waiting for the second game. More importantly there were St. John's fans like myself that were there for every game of the tournament because we knew this was the end of something special. In addition there were Pitt fans, Seton Hall fans, Marquette fans, Villanova fans, etc. that wanted to witness the end of a great era.
instead of only "greed, selfishness" in the headline...the writer should have added, laziness and ineptitude.
a new big east could have rivaled the old. no one anywhere... except a few posters... believe next year's league and beyond will come close to what was killed.
the weiss article is the best i've read.
a new big east could have rivaled the old. no one anywhere... except a few posters... believe next year's league and beyond will come close to what was killed.
the weiss article is the best i've read.
Dan Patrick eulogizes final Big East tournament
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspo...ck-eulogizes-final-big-east-tournament-video/
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspo...ck-eulogizes-final-big-east-tournament-video/
moose...marcus...then why all the obits.??? xavier and butler and creighton and st. louis aren't replacing syracuse, uconn, louisville, pitt and notre dame. the lazy, inept powers that be could have brought the first four i mentioned into a super conference that could have kicked big time butt. they didn't, and that's it.
what should happen now is the acc bringing its super conference into msg year after year to match the old excitement. what's the difference? no st john's? if you go back 17 or 18 years...georgetown won in 07...we won in 00...and the rest of the championships were won by the guys who left.
the water has reached its level.
Moose
Well-known member
You worked in the media. Because the obits drive viewers, clicks, chatter. The media at its finest, errrr worst.
UConn and Gtown had the most 'chips I believe. Uconn did not leave. We left them behind for obvious reasons.
Cuse was 3rd. They did in fact leave. Because they great football program was deemed more important.
After Cuse was STJ and now Lville with their last win.
You refer to lazy inept powers. Nobody I repeat NOBODY in the old Big East was adding non football teams. When will you get that thru your head. You root for a school that doesnt have football. Accept it, stop crying over spilled milk and move on. I notice you haven't disputed that they new conference can garner 5-6 bids. When you do then we can have a nice discussion. Bottom line it could draw 7 who knows. All depends on if these schools continue to build programs. More $ sure helps.
love the media or hate it...it only does obits on the dead. period.
i'm not going into old st john's history. half the posters on these boards weren't alive when we won two of our three BE tournaments. most never even heard of basketball the last time we were relevant. that's not the issue. five or six bids? you mean seven to eleven seeds with most of the other mid majors? that's old fashioned looie mediocrity to me.
i never expected the football "powers" to add non football schools. why would anyone do that? big east football are code words for pigskin garbage. those teams were in a rut, so they jumped from the frying pan into the burning effluent known as the acc.
the solution wasn't to go back to the old big east model. that might have worked if someone got uconn and boston college (losing money on football even with the bigger payouts) back into the fold. i bet no one even tried.
i'm not crying over spilt milk. st john's basketball has been an embarassment for ages. it'll probably continue as an embarassment..or climb the ladder to a high level of mediocrity. its like jet/met/knick fans. you root for what you got...but hope for miracles that never come.
Dan Patrick mentions St. John's, Looie, Chris Mullin....nice eulogy by him; agreed with what he said.
ACC bb superconference and a bunch of big football conferences.
If the new BE can rival the ACC a little bit, and pass by the big FB conferences as far as BB is concerned, that might be like the first 15 years of the original BE.
ACC bb superconference and a bunch of big football conferences.
If the new BE can rival the ACC a little bit, and pass by the big FB conferences as far as BB is concerned, that might be like the first 15 years of the original BE.
beast of the east
Active member
The Big East was founded on greed and selfishness. It was a conference designed to make money for member schools, like all big time college athletics. The problem is, that some members coudl make even more money going to a stronger football conference. This is a business, period. Choose the school we are closest to that is non-Vincentian, and we would bolt from them for $1 million if we had the chance. St John's wasn't sticking around because we were loyal, it was because until the C7, we had nowhere to go.
Poor conference management was blindsided by Pitt & Syracuse. Once those schools left the old Big East was doomed. This is our best alternative. The old BE will never be again. The ACC will be the best Basketball conference, especially when they lose Maryland and another school and then add Uconn and Cincy. Outside of that basketball conference the new Big East could compete with any other basketball conference in the country.
Class of 72
Active member
College sports are cyclical. Success usually revolves around the "aura" of a coach and sometimes around the "program" itself. Sometimes both.
One of the super teams of college basketball is Kentucky. The NCAA champs were not invited this year, even with 20 wins. Their conference is "super" in football but not in basketball.
Duke and UNC are synonymous with ACC power and neither won the ACC championship this year.
Without the rape of the Big East the ACC was becoming an average basketball conference.....on the level of the A10 as the number of bids shows this year.
That said, you assume Syracuse and Duke will be as mythical without Boeheim and coach K and assume Rick Pitino will be at Louisville forever. As you penis envy the ACC, I suggest you look at the new consensus #1 team this year----Gonzaga. In the next 3 years, if the Big East gets. Georgetown, Xavier, St. John's and Villanova back into the top 10, your view may change.
Surprised more are not thrilled by how we come out. As discussed during season this was a chance to have a conference with like needs. We got top team, getting paid big time, with the freedom to have better OOC then teams thatget the pub. Those who were looking for 32 team, we would have had a bunch of top 150 schools. We come out great. We gonna recruit top players, gonna win many games. Be happy. Go storm.
I love the new league. While there will be a drop-off in terms of quality of teams (at least initially), as was pointed out, coaches will leave some of those programs that left and their stature may diminish. Likewise, some of the remaining, and new teams, may see a rise in their stature. The good thing is that we have a group of teams with similar interests and philosophies. It lends to stability and,in the long run, makes for a stronger league.
Another point that many choose to ignore (while others have stated it) is that this was forced upon the remaining teams by the defecting teams, in search of greener pastures for football and for more money. Pitt (and maybe a few others) seem to have deliberately sabotaged the last contract negotiation and then left soon after. The Group of 7 did what they had to do in this new landscape, where football rules. All in all, they did a magnificent job.
Finally, while people say this is a weaker league, and that it will never be what the Big East was, let's remember what the Big East was at its inception. That would be a mrs apt comparison. The league grew into the best basketball league in the land but no one knew that that would be the case at the beginning. Likewise, we on't know how good this league will be in a few years---let alone 34 years from now.
Another point that many choose to ignore (while others have stated it) is that this was forced upon the remaining teams by the defecting teams, in search of greener pastures for football and for more money. Pitt (and maybe a few others) seem to have deliberately sabotaged the last contract negotiation and then left soon after. The Group of 7 did what they had to do in this new landscape, where football rules. All in all, they did a magnificent job.
Finally, while people say this is a weaker league, and that it will never be what the Big East was, let's remember what the Big East was at its inception. That would be a mrs apt comparison. The league grew into the best basketball league in the land but no one knew that that would be the case at the beginning. Likewise, we on't know how good this league will be in a few years---let alone 34 years from now.
What a lot of people don't remember (or were not around in 1980) was that the Big East was created after Joe Paterno's Eastern All Sports Conference couldn't get formed because the 7 schools (Penn State, Pitt, Cuse, Boston College, Temple, WVU & Rutgers) couldn't get together & agree on much. Gavitt knew that conference, if formed, would hurt Providence & other Catholic schools. He had an opportunity to keep it from forming by creating the Big East. He grabbed Cuse & BC, offered them a major position of influence, and the rest is history. Truth is, you can't have a conference where members have such differences, and this is why the Big East eventually collapsed. Not the fault of football schools, not the fault of no football schools. Every decision after the mid 1980s was a matter of different schools with different interests trying to keep together because the basketball was very strong. Some schools like UConn benefited greatly from the Big East. Others like Holy Cross dropped off the map because they weren't members. There was so much in fighting & back room dealing, where every school was looking out for itself. This is our reality. The Catholic schools benefited from some football schools, and some football schools benefited in basketball because of some Catholic schools.
The only thing everyone can agree with is that Rutgers never gave value to anyone in the conference. Now we move on.
The only thing everyone can agree with is that Rutgers never gave value to anyone in the conference. Now we move on.
tom in salem
Well-known member
http://ajerseyguy.com/
Bad times coming for BC?
Date: March 31, 2013Author: MarkCategories: Blau's Blog, College Basketball, March MadnessComments: Leave a reply
The Boston College basketball season ended again well before the Ides of March with a losing record, but cautious signs of optimism for next year for Coach Steve Donahue’s Eagles.
BC will be better next season, but will anyone really notice?
Look at the coming attractions in the ACC, which has perennially been a Duke-North Carolina driven road show.
Not any more. Coming next year will be Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Notre Dame. Coming in 2014 will be Louisville.
Add that with a revitalized Miami program under Jim Larranaga, one more season of Maryland, which is in the Final Four of the NIT, a upsurging Virginia team which is also in the NIT Final Four, as well as the potential for quick revival by Clemson and Florida State.
Where does that put BC in any projection list? 11th, 12th, 13th?
That’s in basketball. In football, the Eagles are coming off a 2-10 season which got Coach Frank Spaziani fired.
Throw Syracuse and Pitt and Louisville into the mix with Florida State, Miami, North Carolina State (new coach) North Carolina (new coach) Clemson, Virginia (new support staff including former BC and NC State head coach Tom O’Brien) and Virginia Tech and BC is where in the depth chart? 10th, 11th or 12tth.
From a financial standpoint, no one can question the move from the Big East to the ACC by the Eagles, but competitively?
The initial moves, which brought Virginia Tech, Miami and then BC into the ACC from the Big East were originally driven by football.
But not the latest influx of raids on the Big East, which were orchestrated by Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski.
Here’s why.
Two years ago when the Big East was doing its usual March Madness dance with a record 11 teams in the NCAA tournament, with teams such as UConn , Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Louisville and even Villanova dominating the Top 20 rankings, Coach K fretted over the declining prestige of the Atlantic Coast Conference in basketball.
Oh, not at Duke or North Carolina, but overall, the ACC had declined in the quality of its depth. The bottom feeders of the ACC were losing battles not only against other second-tier teams from major conferences, but the ACC was also losing games against the mid majors and even the low mid major teams.
Coach K and Duke athletic director Kevin White came up with a war plan, which would ostensibly help the ACC in football, where the conference was simply not a player on the national level, but was really designed to boost ACC basketball.
Although the prevailing wisdom was that the addition of Pittsburgh and Syracuse to the ACC was a football dictated move, it was really pushed forward by Duke to boost the ACC to the top-tier in basketball.
Look at the teams in the Final Four this weekend and then look ahead to next season and then beyond when the ACC will have a contending group that includes Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Miami, Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame.
That’s 8 NCAA bids without even blinking. Throw in a good year by Virginia, or Florida State, or Clemson and you have BC looking for scraps.
Bad times coming for BC?
Date: March 31, 2013Author: MarkCategories: Blau's Blog, College Basketball, March MadnessComments: Leave a reply
The Boston College basketball season ended again well before the Ides of March with a losing record, but cautious signs of optimism for next year for Coach Steve Donahue’s Eagles.
BC will be better next season, but will anyone really notice?
Look at the coming attractions in the ACC, which has perennially been a Duke-North Carolina driven road show.
Not any more. Coming next year will be Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Notre Dame. Coming in 2014 will be Louisville.
Add that with a revitalized Miami program under Jim Larranaga, one more season of Maryland, which is in the Final Four of the NIT, a upsurging Virginia team which is also in the NIT Final Four, as well as the potential for quick revival by Clemson and Florida State.
Where does that put BC in any projection list? 11th, 12th, 13th?
That’s in basketball. In football, the Eagles are coming off a 2-10 season which got Coach Frank Spaziani fired.
Throw Syracuse and Pitt and Louisville into the mix with Florida State, Miami, North Carolina State (new coach) North Carolina (new coach) Clemson, Virginia (new support staff including former BC and NC State head coach Tom O’Brien) and Virginia Tech and BC is where in the depth chart? 10th, 11th or 12tth.
From a financial standpoint, no one can question the move from the Big East to the ACC by the Eagles, but competitively?
The initial moves, which brought Virginia Tech, Miami and then BC into the ACC from the Big East were originally driven by football.
But not the latest influx of raids on the Big East, which were orchestrated by Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski.
Here’s why.
Two years ago when the Big East was doing its usual March Madness dance with a record 11 teams in the NCAA tournament, with teams such as UConn , Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Louisville and even Villanova dominating the Top 20 rankings, Coach K fretted over the declining prestige of the Atlantic Coast Conference in basketball.
Oh, not at Duke or North Carolina, but overall, the ACC had declined in the quality of its depth. The bottom feeders of the ACC were losing battles not only against other second-tier teams from major conferences, but the ACC was also losing games against the mid majors and even the low mid major teams.
Coach K and Duke athletic director Kevin White came up with a war plan, which would ostensibly help the ACC in football, where the conference was simply not a player on the national level, but was really designed to boost ACC basketball.
Although the prevailing wisdom was that the addition of Pittsburgh and Syracuse to the ACC was a football dictated move, it was really pushed forward by Duke to boost the ACC to the top-tier in basketball.
Look at the teams in the Final Four this weekend and then look ahead to next season and then beyond when the ACC will have a contending group that includes Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Miami, Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame.
That’s 8 NCAA bids without even blinking. Throw in a good year by Virginia, or Florida State, or Clemson and you have BC looking for scraps.
All things considered I think we came out pretty good in those whole mess. Football was driving this bus and it forced the "old" Big East to accept the schools like Rutgers, Cincy and Louisville who were not a match for the non-football schools. Will I miss some of the old rivals like Syracuse and Pitt? Sure. However, they were driven by football even though they are better basketball schools. But its not really basketball they are chasing but the big money of football they want.
In the end we now have the basketball only conference that better matches our profile. What we need to do now is start recruiting better, and start winning again. Having a strong St John's in NY could really help the "new" Big East get off the ground.
In the end we now have the basketball only conference that better matches our profile. What we need to do now is start recruiting better, and start winning again. Having a strong St John's in NY could really help the "new" Big East get off the ground.