Best loss in SJU history?

[beast of the east]

Pressing the rewind button on our basketball past, I always stop on the Holiday Festival in 1975.   

Indiana was undefeated at the time. and was being touted as one of the best teams in NCAA history.    They went on to run the table and became NCAA champions.   Even though we had a pretty good team (ended the season at #18) and some all time great SJU players (George Johnson, Glen WIlliams, Beaver Smith, Frank Alagia, et al), and even though we were undefeated going into the game (9-0), it was David vs. Goliath.

There was a lot of excitement heading into a packed MSG before the game, but also a fear that we were going to get our clocks cleaned.   The Indiana team, led by Scott May, Kent Benson, Quinn Buckner,  (in all 6 future NBA players with Tom Abernathy, Bobby WIlkerson, and Wayne Radford) was supposedly that good.

In a Rocky 1 type of game, we punched and counterpunched the whole way through.   The Garden's roof almost blew off in the first ten minutes, when George Johnson destroyed Kent Benson and put him on the bench with foul trouble.   It was like American Patriots standing up to the British - except we know who won that one and that gave us hope.

The game went down to the final minutes.  I seem to remember that John Farmer missed a chippy that could have tied or put us ahead.   Indiana, as great teams do, stiffened, and pulled out a 76-69 win.

When it became clear that the outcome was no longer in doubt, at a stop in the action with maybe 30 seconds or so left, SJU fans knew we had witnessed something very special.  Our guys, man for man (Frank Alagia still regrets that we had no answer to Abernathy) stood up to giants, and almost toppled them.   

Spontaneously, the fans at the Garden stood up, and as loudly as if we had just won, saluted our guys with a thunderous ovation.

It was at that moment that I was incredibly proud and happy I had chosen St. John's, and still am.   To me, it was such a proud loss that it ranked up there with our biggest wins.

Your thoughts? 

 

[boo haarvey]

I was born in ‘76 so that’s a little before my time.  For me, the best loss has to be the game at the garden against Duke where Bootsy went off for 40 points.  I was at that game and it was incredible.  We lost in overtime, but for me, it cemented the belief  that we were as good as any team in the country.

 

[nysj144]

was a little young for 75 game

agree Boo.     I’ll never forget that Duke game.   Went to game with my father.    Msg sold out.     High fiving everyone when artest hit the three     

a couple of foul calls on sju questionable if I remember right

 

[MainMan]

Pressing the rewind button on our basketball past, I always stop on the Holiday Festival in 1975.   

Indiana was undefeated at the time. and was being touted as one of the best teams in NCAA history.    They went on to run the table and became NCAA champions.   Even though we had a pretty good team (ended the season at #18) and some all time great SJU players (George Johnson, Glen WIlliams, Beaver Smith, Frank Alagia, et al), and even though we were undefeated going into the game (9-0), it was David vs. Goliath.

There was a lot of excitement heading into a packed MSG before the game, but also a fear that we were going to get our clocks cleaned.   The Indiana team, led by Scott May, Kent Benson, Quinn Buckner,  (in all 6 future NBA players with Tom Abernathy, Bobby WIlkerson, and Wayne Radford) was supposedly that good.

In a Rocky 1 type of game, we punched and counterpunched the whole way through.   The Garden's roof almost blew off in the first ten minutes, when George Johnson destroyed Kent Benson and put him on the bench with foul trouble.   It was like American Patriots standing up to the British - except we know who won that one and that gave us hope.

The game went down to the final minutes.  I seem to remember that John Farmer missed a chippy that could have tied or put us ahead.   Indiana, as great teams do, stiffened, and pulled out a 76-69 win.

When it became clear that the outcome was no longer in doubt, at a stop in the action with maybe 30 seconds or so left, SJU fans knew we had witnessed something very special.  Our guys, man for man (Frank Alagia still regrets that we had no answer to Abernathy) stood up to giants, and almost toppled them.   

Spontaneously, the fans at the Garden stood up, and as loudly as if we had just won, saluted our guys with a thunderous ovation.

It was at that moment that I was incredibly proud and happy I had chosen St. John's, and still am.   To me, it was such a proud loss that it ranked up there with our biggest wins.

Your thoughts? 

Was this ever televised? And if so, does anybody have a copy?

There are no pre-Mullin SJU game videos that I have been able to find on the interwebs. Would love to see some from the 70s. 

 

 

[GardenCity62]

I recall an Alegia driving layup rolling out instead of in in the final minute which might have turned the tide. It was a great game.

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

You guys hit the two games I can recall being so proud, but not winning. I wasn't at the Indiana game or if I was I can't recall being there.

I remember the Duke game better because I was there behind the basket with my young nephew at the time. He said to me are all "their" games like this? He kept coming to games with me and they were definitely not ALL like that one. Most were horror shows.

Coach K said after the game, SJU easily could have won and would have deserved it if they did. Said both teams played their hearts out and left every ounce of themselves out there on the floor. My memory is of the warrior effort put forth by Ron Artest defensively, he almost willed us to victory.

 

[Alumni Hall]

After that Duke loss, Coach K came on the team bus and asked Jarvis if he could speak to the SJ team. He said some wonderful things to the men. Class move.

 

[Alumni Hall]

Pressing the rewind button on our basketball past, I always stop on the Holiday Festival in 1975.   

Indiana was undefeated at the time. and was being touted as one of the best teams in NCAA history.    They went on to run the table and became NCAA champions.   Even though we had a pretty good team (ended the season at #18) and some all time great SJU players (George Johnson, Glen WIlliams, Beaver Smith, Frank Alagia, et al), and even though we were undefeated going into the game (9-0), it was David vs. Goliath.

There was a lot of excitement heading into a packed MSG before the game, but also a fear that we were going to get our clocks cleaned.   The Indiana team, led by Scott May, Kent Benson, Quinn Buckner,  (in all 6 future NBA players with Tom Abernathy, Bobby WIlkerson, and Wayne Radford) was supposedly that good.

In a Rocky 1 type of game, we punched and counterpunched the whole way through.   The Garden's roof almost blew off in the first ten minutes, when George Johnson destroyed Kent Benson and put him on the bench with foul trouble.   It was like American Patriots standing up to the British - except we know who won that one and that gave us hope.

The game went down to the final minutes.  I seem to remember that John Farmer missed a chippy that could have tied or put us ahead.   Indiana, as great teams do, stiffened, and pulled out a 76-69 win.

When it became clear that the outcome was no longer in doubt, at a stop in the action with maybe 30 seconds or so left, SJU fans knew we had witnessed something very special.  Our guys, man for man (Frank Alagia still regrets that we had no answer to Abernathy) stood up to giants, and almost toppled them.   

Spontaneously, the fans at the Garden stood up, and as loudly as if we had just won, saluted our guys with a thunderous ovation.

It was at that moment that I was incredibly proud and happy I had chosen St. John's, and still am.   To me, it was such a proud loss that it ranked up there with our biggest wins.

Your thoughts? 

Was this ever televised? And if so, does anybody have a copy?

There are no pre-Mullin SJU game videos that I have been able to find on the interwebs. Would love to see some from the 70s. 

All of the cans of game film dating back to the 50’s were thrown out by the equipment room staff after Mr Hess retired. There were racks and racks of film in the old 16 mm blue cans. And when Jarvis and his staff left and the new coaches moved to the new Taffner building, all of the VHS tapes from the Mullin years forward including highlight films, were all thrown away by the athletic dept as well as many of the teams trophies including Big East championship ones. There was a dedicated film room in the basketball offices where they had hundreds of tapes all stored by year and game. I think I might still have my VHS copy of the 83 and 85 highlight tapes.
 

 

[MarkRedman]

I recall listening to the St John's -Fordham game on the radio in the year that Fordham was undefeated for most of the season under Digger Phelps. If memory serves me correctly, we lost a heart breaker at the very end of the game.

I also remember the St John's- Syracuse game at Alumni Hall when we lost at the very end on the block-charge call that went against us. Was it Reggie Carter that got called for the charge? I lost a dinner bet with my cousin (a Cuse alum) over that game and, to this day, he hasn't let me forget it.

I don't know if these were "best" losses but they sure were heart breaking ones

 

 

[Section3]

Pressing the rewind button on our basketball past, I always stop on the Holiday Festival in 1975.   

Indiana was undefeated at the time. and was being touted as one of the best teams in NCAA history.    They went on to run the table and became NCAA champions.   Even though we had a pretty good team (ended the season at #18) and some all time great SJU players (George Johnson, Glen WIlliams, Beaver Smith, Frank Alagia, et al), and even though we were undefeated going into the game (9-0), it was David vs. Goliath.

There was a lot of excitement heading into a packed MSG before the game, but also a fear that we were going to get our clocks cleaned.   The Indiana team, led by Scott May, Kent Benson, Quinn Buckner,  (in all 6 future NBA players with Tom Abernathy, Bobby WIlkerson, and Wayne Radford) was supposedly that good.

In a Rocky 1 type of game, we punched and counterpunched the whole way through.   The Garden's roof almost blew off in the first ten minutes, when George Johnson destroyed Kent Benson and put him on the bench with foul trouble.   It was like American Patriots standing up to the British - except we know who won that one and that gave us hope.

The game went down to the final minutes.  I seem to remember that John Farmer missed a chippy that could have tied or put us ahead.   Indiana, as great teams do, stiffened, and pulled out a 76-69 win.

When it became clear that the outcome was no longer in doubt, at a stop in the action with maybe 30 seconds or so left, SJU fans knew we had witnessed something very special.  Our guys, man for man (Frank Alagia still regrets that we had no answer to Abernathy) stood up to giants, and almost toppled them.   

Spontaneously, the fans at the Garden stood up, and as loudly as if we had just won, saluted our guys with a thunderous ovation.

It was at that moment that I was incredibly proud and happy I had chosen St. John's, and still am.   To me, it was such a proud loss that it ranked up there with our biggest wins.

Your thoughts? 

unbelievable game beast. One that I wish many younger posters could see in order to appreciate how GREAT George Johnson was. Far and away, the most under appreciated star that I have had the privilege to see over my 47 years as a season ticket holder.

I’ve shared this before so forgive me for being redundant….

I spoke to George at a Brooklyn BBall hall of fame dinner a while back….his take was that if they had just one more “player” they would have contended for title (I agree).

As you noted, he ate Kent Benson up and years later when they roomed together for the Indiana Pacers, Kent told George that he was afraid of George when they played against each other years earlier.

EDIT: By the way, George (and former baseball star SJ Ed D’Alessio) both attended New Utrecht HS (think Welcome Back Kotter opening).  Eddie was the PG and George the star forward/center. They swept Fort Hamilton (Bernard King) that year.

 

[Section3]

Pressing the rewind button on our basketball past, I always stop on the Holiday Festival in 1975.   

Indiana was undefeated at the time. and was being touted as one of the best teams in NCAA history.    They went on to run the table and became NCAA champions.   Even though we had a pretty good team (ended the season at #18) and some all time great SJU players (George Johnson, Glen WIlliams, Beaver Smith, Frank Alagia, et al), and even though we were undefeated going into the game (9-0), it was David vs. Goliath.

There was a lot of excitement heading into a packed MSG before the game, but also a fear that we were going to get our clocks cleaned.   The Indiana team, led by Scott May, Kent Benson, Quinn Buckner,  (in all 6 future NBA players with Tom Abernathy, Bobby WIlkerson, and Wayne Radford) was supposedly that good.

In a Rocky 1 type of game, we punched and counterpunched the whole way through.   The Garden's roof almost blew off in the first ten minutes, when George Johnson destroyed Kent Benson and put him on the bench with foul trouble.   It was like American Patriots standing up to the British - except we know who won that one and that gave us hope.

The game went down to the final minutes.  I seem to remember that John Farmer missed a chippy that could have tied or put us ahead.   Indiana, as great teams do, stiffened, and pulled out a 76-69 win.

When it became clear that the outcome was no longer in doubt, at a stop in the action with maybe 30 seconds or so left, SJU fans knew we had witnessed something very special.  Our guys, man for man (Frank Alagia still regrets that we had no answer to Abernathy) stood up to giants, and almost toppled them.   

Spontaneously, the fans at the Garden stood up, and as loudly as if we had just won, saluted our guys with a thunderous ovation.

It was at that moment that I was incredibly proud and happy I had chosen St. John's, and still am.   To me, it was such a proud loss that it ranked up there with our biggest wins.

Your thoughts? 

Was this ever televised? And if so, does anybody have a copy?

There are no pre-Mullin SJU game videos that I have been able to find on the interwebs. Would love to see some from the 70s. 

All of the cans of game film dating back to the 50’s were thrown out by the equipment room staff after Mr Hess retired. There were racks and racks of film in the old 16 mm blue cans. And when Jarvis and his staff left and the new coaches moved to the new Taffner building, all of the VHS tapes from the Mullin years forward including highlight films, were all thrown away by the athletic dept as well as many of the teams trophies including Big East championship ones. There was a dedicated film room in the basketball offices where they had hundreds of tapes all stored by year and game. I think I might still have my VHS copy of the 83 and 85 highlight tapes.

 

What a shame. I reached out to Mike Cragg a few years ago suggest8 that they use video highlights when recognizing former players so that fans could appreciate the great tradition that we had.

 

[redrx]

Pressing the rewind button on our basketball past, I always stop on the Holiday Festival in 1975.   

Indiana was undefeated at the time. and was being touted as one of the best teams in NCAA history.    They went on to run the table and became NCAA champions.   Even though we had a pretty good team (ended the season at #18) and some all time great SJU players (George Johnson, Glen WIlliams, Beaver Smith, Frank Alagia, et al), and even though we were undefeated going into the game (9-0), it was David vs. Goliath.

There was a lot of excitement heading into a packed MSG before the game, but also a fear that we were going to get our clocks cleaned.   The Indiana team, led by Scott May, Kent Benson, Quinn Buckner,  (in all 6 future NBA players with Tom Abernathy, Bobby WIlkerson, and Wayne Radford) was supposedly that good.

In a Rocky 1 type of game, we punched and counterpunched the whole way through.   The Garden's roof almost blew off in the first ten minutes, when George Johnson destroyed Kent Benson and put him on the bench with foul trouble.   It was like American Patriots standing up to the British - except we know who won that one and that gave us hope.

The game went down to the final minutes.  I seem to remember that John Farmer missed a chippy that could have tied or put us ahead.   Indiana, as great teams do, stiffened, and pulled out a 76-69 win.

When it became clear that the outcome was no longer in doubt, at a stop in the action with maybe 30 seconds or so left, SJU fans knew we had witnessed something very special.  Our guys, man for man (Frank Alagia still regrets that we had no answer to Abernathy) stood up to giants, and almost toppled them.   

Spontaneously, the fans at the Garden stood up, and as loudly as if we had just won, saluted our guys with a thunderous ovation.

It was at that moment that I was incredibly proud and happy I had chosen St. John's, and still am.   To me, it was such a proud loss that it ranked up there with our biggest wins.

Your thoughts? 


I was at the game, as well.  I was in high school and my brother, a St. John's student, brought me to the game.  It was my first MSG college game. 

Wow, the place was electric and every play was exciting.  I most remember Frank Alagia and Beaver Smith playing their hearts out against much taller and more athletic IU players.  It was so loud and so pro- St, John's.  We had no business being in that game, which made it so sweet that we stayed with them the way we did.  It was David vs. Goliath, for sure! 
 

 

[bamafan]

I recall listening to the St John's -Fordham game on the radio in the year that Fordham was undefeated for most of the season under Digger Phelps. If memory serves me correctly, we lost a heart breaker at the very end of the game.

I also remember the St John's- Syracuse game at Alumni Hall when we lost at the very end on the block-charge call that went against us. Was it Reggie Carter that got called for the charge? I lost a dinner bet with my cousin (a Cuse alum) over that game and, to this day, he hasn't let me forget it.

I don't know if these were "best" losses but they sure were heart breaking ones


 

If memory serves Reggie was called for a blocking foul instead of Louis Orr being called for charging foul.

 

[Las Vegan]

The Indiana and Duke games were memorable, heroic efforts. I remember another classic loss. The early 70s game, at Alumni Hall, vs Providence, a team that went to the final four and might have beaten UCLA for the national championship, if Marvin Barnes didn't get hurt in the semis vs Memphis St.
Ernie De Gregorio was amazing, as was our Bill Schaeffer. It took them overtime to put us away. One of the best games i can remember being at, on campus.

 

[bamafan]

Pressing the rewind button on our basketball past, I always stop on the Holiday Festival in 1975.   

Indiana was undefeated at the time. and was being touted as one of the best teams in NCAA history.    They went on to run the table and became NCAA champions.   Even though we had a pretty good team (ended the season at #18) and some all time great SJU players (George Johnson, Glen WIlliams, Beaver Smith, Frank Alagia, et al), and even though we were undefeated going into the game (9-0), it was David vs. Goliath.

There was a lot of excitement heading into a packed MSG before the game, but also a fear that we were going to get our clocks cleaned.   The Indiana team, led by Scott May, Kent Benson, Quinn Buckner,  (in all 6 future NBA players with Tom Abernathy, Bobby WIlkerson, and Wayne Radford) was supposedly that good.

In a Rocky 1 type of game, we punched and counterpunched the whole way through.   The Garden's roof almost blew off in the first ten minutes, when George Johnson destroyed Kent Benson and put him on the bench with foul trouble.   It was like American Patriots standing up to the British - except we know who won that one and that gave us hope.

The game went down to the final minutes.  I seem to remember that John Farmer missed a chippy that could have tied or put us ahead.   Indiana, as great teams do, stiffened, and pulled out a 76-69 win.

When it became clear that the outcome was no longer in doubt, at a stop in the action with maybe 30 seconds or so left, SJU fans knew we had witnessed something very special.  Our guys, man for man (Frank Alagia still regrets that we had no answer to Abernathy) stood up to giants, and almost toppled them.   

Spontaneously, the fans at the Garden stood up, and as loudly as if we had just won, saluted our guys with a thunderous ovation.

It was at that moment that I was incredibly proud and happy I had chosen St. John's, and still am.   To me, it was such a proud loss that it ranked up there with our biggest wins.

Your thoughts? 

John Farmer did not miss a chippy he was called for a foul on what looked like a steal that had him ahead of the field going in for a layup on a potential game changing call late in the game.

 

[Section3]

The Indiana and Duke games were memorable, heroic efforts. I remember another classic loss. The early 70s game, at Alumni Hall, vs Providence, a team that went to the final four and might have beaten UCLA for the national championship, if Marvin Barnes didn't get hurt in the semis vs Memphis St.
Ernie De Gregorio was amazing, as was our Bill Schaeffer. It took them overtime to put us away. One of the best games i can remember being at, on campus.

Televised games were not common in those days but that one was on TV. As you said, Schaeffer was amazing. Was gone by the time I started in 74 but from what I’ve heard and recall from the few TV games I saw, he is another under appreciated star.

 

[MarkRedman]

The Indiana and Duke games were memorable, heroic efforts. I remember another classic loss. The early 70s game, at Alumni Hall, vs Providence, a team that went to the final four and might have beaten UCLA for the national championship, if Marvin Barnes didn't get hurt in the semis vs Memphis St.
Ernie De Gregorio was amazing, as was our Bill Schaeffer. It took them overtime to put us away. One of the best games i can remember being at, on campus.

Televised games were not common in those days but that one was on TV. As you said, Schaeffer was amazing. Was gone by the time I started in 74 but from what I’ve heard and recall from the few TV games I saw, he is another under appreciated star.



Schaeffer from the corner was money in the bank
Billy averaged 24.7 points per game in his senior year (1972-73)
That record still stands today in St John's history
Very underrated player IMO

 

 

[truckie]

Niagara loss in the beginning of the 84-85 season.  I think it woke the team up.

 

[boo haarvey]

Niagara loss in the beginning of the 84-85 season.  I think it woke the team up.

The loss at Fordham during Lav’s first year turned out to be a productive loss.  I think the coaching staff learned from that game that Dwight Hardy and not Malik Booth should be the starting PG
 

 

[mjmaherjr]

Sooooo many losses to think about. The Fordham Lavin one was a good one.

Norm Roberts had no good losses. I dont recall Mullin with many either just plenty of bad ones