bench riders for Lavin

J

Joe Tempesta

Member
One wonders why Alibegovich, Balamou, and Jones were not used much by Lavin. Is Mullin's cheerleading more effective than Lavin's?
 
They had strong players.... plus Alivegovich was a rookie, Balamou is althletic but not a great ballplayer and Christian Jones is big, but can't handle a ball.
 
Probably, my sarcasm was subtle. My point is, cheerleading is important. However, teaching and coaching is more important. The former coach could not do Xs and Os. The last several games, and the game against Syracuse, shows how Xs and Os can be done well. Lavin and company demonstrated it. They beat the two, three zone.

As for teaching, I always felt that the former coach's recruits came in with a skill set, and left with the same skill set. There appeared to be no development, no teaching. Obekpa is the best example of this failing. He came in as a shot blocker; he left as a shot blocker. No one taught him to find ways use his wing span to score. I felt that if we could have gotten ten points a game from him, we might have done well under the former regime.

In contrast, CM and company seem to have taught Balamou, Jones, and Alibegovich, how to play, how to score.
 
Probably, my sarcasm was subtle. My point is, cheerleading is important. However, teaching and coaching is more important. The former coach could not do Xs and Os. The last several games, and the game against Syracuse, shows how Xs and Os can be done well. Lavin and company demonstrated it. They beat the two, three zone.

As for teaching, I always felt that the former coach's recruits came in with a skill set, and left with the same skill set. There appeared to be no development, no teaching. Obekpa is the best example of this failing. He came in as a shot blocker; he left as a shot blocker. No one taught him to find ways use his wing span to score. I felt that if we could have gotten ten points a game from him, we might have done well under the former regime.

In contrast, CM and company seem to have taught Balamou, Jones, and Alibegovich, how to play, how to score.
Click to expand...

May I be the first here to welcome you to redmen.com. Your first post was insightful regarding the last coaching regime. They recruited some of the best athletes at SJ in the past 20 years but in terms of basketball skills they were slow to develop, difficult to coach and as we know, half left early leaving little to no lasting legacy (Nurideen Lindsey, Rasheed Jordan, Dwayne Polee, Max great white hope Hooper, Adonis De La Rosa, his evil brother and Chris bang a gong Obekpa) while Jakarr Sampson and Maurice Harkless benefited from being Lavin golden boys, they played for themselves and only themselves. Most striking of these outstanding athletes Lavin recruited were the ones that never qualified such as Norvel Pelle and Keith Thomas who, if not for their complete disdain for all things academic, could have changed Lavin's career at St. John's to Rico Gathers proportions.
Even the Lavin holdovers you mention had potential as bench players but to this day, that is all they are and ever will be. Yes it was great to see Amar have a breakout game today but this staff will not be suckered into a Phil Greene IV love affair with him. They are also smart enough to have figured out Yakwe will be able to deliver better on court contributions than Felix Balamou or Chris Jones and against a formidable opponent like Cuse both Balamou and Jones were relegated to their natural positions, i.e., playing in less crucial minutes in favor of the quickly developing Yakwe.
I am sure you'll be promoted quickly if your first post is any indication and once you join that dysfunctional group, just remember never to engage any of the mods, save for good guys like Mkrass, Kranmars, redmannorth or Moose and pay close attention to the Paultzman's avatars. Go Redmen!
 
Lavins squads played isolation basketball. With a lot of BS motion (false weave) up top. Rarely any set plays with screens or cuts. For players like Amar and Jones (role players) they didn't fit. Totally agree with developing skills ( lack of). Mullin and his staff has been able to put players in a position to contribute on the floor.
 
Probably, my sarcasm was subtle. My point is, cheerleading is important. However, teaching and coaching is more important. The former coach could not do Xs and Os. The last several games, and the game against Syracuse, shows how Xs and Os can be done well. Lavin and company demonstrated it. They beat the two, three zone.

As for teaching, I always felt that the former coach's recruits came in with a skill set, and left with the same skill set. There appeared to be no development, no teaching. Obekpa is the best example of this failing. He came in as a shot blocker; he left as a shot blocker. No one taught him to find ways use his wing span to score. I felt that if we could have gotten ten points a game from him, we might have done well under the former regime.

In contrast, CM and company seem to have taught Balamou, Jones, and Alibegovich, how to play, how to score.
Click to expand...

May I be the first here to welcome you to redmen.com. Your first post was insightful regarding the last coaching regime. They recruited some of the best athletes at SJ in the past 20 years but in terms of basketball skills they were slow to develop, difficult to coach and as we know, half left early leaving little to no lasting legacy (Nurideen Lindsey, Rasheed Jordan, Dwayne Polee, Max great white hope Hooper, Adonis De La Rosa, his evil brother and Chris bang a gong Obekpa) while Jakarr Sampson and Maurice Harkless benefited from being Lavin golden boys, they played for themselves and only themselves. Most striking of these outstanding athletes Lavin recruited were the ones that never qualified such as Norvel Pelle and Keith Thomas who, if not for their complete disdain for all things academic, could have changed Lavin's career at St. John's to Rico Gathers proportions.
Even the Lavin holdovers you mention had potential as bench players but to this day, that is all they are and ever will be. Yes it was great to see Amar have a breakout game today but this staff will not be suckered into a Phil Greene IV love affair with him. They are also smart enough to have figured out Yakwe will be able to deliver better on court contributions than Felix Balamou or Chris Jones and against a formidable opponent like Cuse both Balamou and Jones were relegated to their natural positions, i.e., playing in less crucial minutes in favor of the quickly developing Yakwe.
I am sure you'll be promoted quickly if your first post is any indication and once you join that dysfunctional group, just remember never to engage any of the mods, save for good guys like Mkrass, Kranmars, redmannorth or Moose and pay close attention to the Paultzman's avatars. Go Redmen!
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't 4 out of the 6 players you mentioned (Lindsey, Polee, Hooper, and Adonis) all leave after 1 year? What kind of legacy were you expecting them to leave?
 
Probably, my sarcasm was subtle. My point is, cheerleading is important. However, teaching and coaching is more important. The former coach could not do Xs and Os. The last several games, and the game against Syracuse, shows how Xs and Os can be done well. Lavin and company demonstrated it. They beat the two, three zone.

As for teaching, I always felt that the former coach's recruits came in with a skill set, and left with the same skill set. There appeared to be no development, no teaching. Obekpa is the best example of this failing. He came in as a shot blocker; he left as a shot blocker. No one taught him to find ways use his wing span to score. I felt that if we could have gotten ten points a game from him, we might have done well under the former regime.

In contrast, CM and company seem to have taught Balamou, Jones, and Alibegovich, how to play, how to score.
Click to expand...

May I be the first here to welcome you to redmen.com. Your first post was insightful regarding the last coaching regime. They recruited some of the best athletes at SJ in the past 20 years but in terms of basketball skills they were slow to develop, difficult to coach and as we know, half left early leaving little to no lasting legacy (Nurideen Lindsey, Rasheed Jordan, Dwayne Polee, Max great white hope Hooper, Adonis De La Rosa, his evil brother and Chris bang a gong Obekpa) while Jakarr Sampson and Maurice Harkless benefited from being Lavin golden boys, they played for themselves and only themselves. Most striking of these outstanding athletes Lavin recruited were the ones that never qualified such as Norvel Pelle and Keith Thomas who, if not for their complete disdain for all things academic, could have changed Lavin's career at St. John's to Rico Gathers proportions.
Even the Lavin holdovers you mention had potential as bench players but to this day, that is all they are and ever will be. Yes it was great to see Amar have a breakout game today but this staff will not be suckered into a Phil Greene IV love affair with him. They are also smart enough to have figured out Yakwe will be able to deliver better on court contributions than Felix Balamou or Chris Jones and against a formidable opponent like Cuse both Balamou and Jones were relegated to their natural positions, i.e., playing in less crucial minutes in favor of the quickly developing Yakwe.
I am sure you'll be promoted quickly if your first post is any indication and once you join that dysfunctional group, just remember never to engage any of the mods, save for good guys like Mkrass, Kranmars, redmannorth or Moose and pay close attention to the Paultzman's avatars. Go Redmen!
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't 4 out of the 6 players you mentioned (Lindsey, Polee, Hooper, and Adonis) all leave after 1 year? What kind of legacy were you expecting them to leave?
Click to expand...

Maurice Harkless left after one year but his legacy for future players is that he made it to the NBA. I am not talking Carmelo Anthony level legacy here Jumbo but a legacy of success in those one or two years worthy of mentioning to current or future recruits. Walter Berry played only two two years but has had a lasting impression on fans worthy of remembering while Omar Cook left zero, Nurideen Lindsey left zero, while Adonis Delarosa left a very huge impression in Montgoris Hall.
In the Lavin era the number of failures after 12 months on campus is unprecedented at St. John's from Nurideen to Sanchez to Adonis to a Keith Thomas who was allowed to enroll with a false transcript. Sadly, even a great scorer like D'Angelo Harrison who stayed 4 years left little to be remembered given his record breaking stats compared to previous players like Malik Sealy, George Johnson or even sharp shooter Jayson Williams.
 
Probably, my sarcasm was subtle. My point is, cheerleading is important. However, teaching and coaching is more important. The former coach could not do Xs and Os. The last several games, and the game against Syracuse, shows how Xs and Os can be done well. Lavin and company demonstrated it. They beat the two, three zone.

As for teaching, I always felt that the former coach's recruits came in with a skill set, and left with the same skill set. There appeared to be no development, no teaching. Obekpa is the best example of this failing. He came in as a shot blocker; he left as a shot blocker. No one taught him to find ways use his wing span to score. I felt that if we could have gotten ten points a game from him, we might have done well under the former regime.

In contrast, CM and company seem to have taught Balamou, Jones, and Alibegovich, how to play, how to score.
Click to expand...

May I be the first here to welcome you to redmen.com. Your first post was insightful regarding the last coaching regime. They recruited some of the best athletes at SJ in the past 20 years but in terms of basketball skills they were slow to develop, difficult to coach and as we know, half left early leaving little to no lasting legacy (Nurideen Lindsey, Rasheed Jordan, Dwayne Polee, Max great white hope Hooper, Adonis De La Rosa, his evil brother and Chris bang a gong Obekpa) while Jakarr Sampson and Maurice Harkless benefited from being Lavin golden boys, they played for themselves and only themselves. Most striking of these outstanding athletes Lavin recruited were the ones that never qualified such as Norvel Pelle and Keith Thomas who, if not for their complete disdain for all things academic, could have changed Lavin's career at St. John's to Rico Gathers proportions.
Even the Lavin holdovers you mention had potential as bench players but to this day, that is all they are and ever will be. Yes it was great to see Amar have a breakout game today but this staff will not be suckered into a Phil Greene IV love affair with him. They are also smart enough to have figured out Yakwe will be able to deliver better on court contributions than Felix Balamou or Chris Jones and against a formidable opponent like Cuse both Balamou and Jones were relegated to their natural positions, i.e., playing in less crucial minutes in favor of the quickly developing Yakwe.
I am sure you'll be promoted quickly if your first post is any indication and once you join that dysfunctional group, just remember never to engage any of the mods, save for good guys like Mkrass, Kranmars, redmannorth or Moose and pay close attention to the Paultzman's avatars. Go Redmen!
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't 4 out of the 6 players you mentioned (Lindsey, Polee, Hooper, and Adonis) all leave after 1 year? What kind of legacy were you expecting them to leave?
Click to expand...

Maurice Harkless left after one year but his legacy for future players is that he made it to the NBA. I am not talking Carmelo Anthony level legacy here Jumbo but a legacy of success in those one or two years worthy of mentioning to current or future recruits. Walter Berry played only two two years but has had a lasting impression on fans worthy of remembering while Omar Cook left zero, Nurideen Lindsey left zero, while Adonis Delarosa left a very huge impression in Montgoris Hall.
In the Lavin era the number of failures after 12 months on campus is unprecedented at St. John's from Nurideen to Sanchez to Adonis to a Keith Thomas who was allowed to enroll with a false transcript. Sadly, even a great scorer like D'Angelo Harrison who stayed 4 years left little to be remembered given his record breaking stats compared to previous players like Malik Sealy, George Johnson or even sharp shooter Jayson Williams.
Click to expand...

Harkless left after 1 year and a 13-19 record. Exactly how is that a legacy of success?

And if you truly think that Harkless left more of a legacy here than DLo did.....well all I can say is that I feel sorry for you.
 
Probably, my sarcasm was subtle. My point is, cheerleading is important. However, teaching and coaching is more important. The former coach could not do Xs and Os. The last several games, and the game against Syracuse, shows how Xs and Os can be done well. Lavin and company demonstrated it. They beat the two, three zone.

As for teaching, I always felt that the former coach's recruits came in with a skill set, and left with the same skill set. There appeared to be no development, no teaching. Obekpa is the best example of this failing. He came in as a shot blocker; he left as a shot blocker. No one taught him to find ways use his wing span to score. I felt that if we could have gotten ten points a game from him, we might have done well under the former regime.

In contrast, CM and company seem to have taught Balamou, Jones, and Alibegovich, how to play, how to score.
Click to expand...

May I be the first here to welcome you to redmen.com. Your first post was insightful regarding the last coaching regime. They recruited some of the best athletes at SJ in the past 20 years but in terms of basketball skills they were slow to develop, difficult to coach and as we know, half left early leaving little to no lasting legacy (Nurideen Lindsey, Rasheed Jordan, Dwayne Polee, Max great white hope Hooper, Adonis De La Rosa, his evil brother and Chris bang a gong Obekpa) while Jakarr Sampson and Maurice Harkless benefited from being Lavin golden boys, they played for themselves and only themselves. Most striking of these outstanding athletes Lavin recruited were the ones that never qualified such as Norvel Pelle and Keith Thomas who, if not for their complete disdain for all things academic, could have changed Lavin's career at St. John's to Rico Gathers proportions.
Even the Lavin holdovers you mention had potential as bench players but to this day, that is all they are and ever will be. Yes it was great to see Amar have a breakout game today but this staff will not be suckered into a Phil Greene IV love affair with him. They are also smart enough to have figured out Yakwe will be able to deliver better on court contributions than Felix Balamou or Chris Jones and against a formidable opponent like Cuse both Balamou and Jones were relegated to their natural positions, i.e., playing in less crucial minutes in favor of the quickly developing Yakwe.
I am sure you'll be promoted quickly if your first post is any indication and once you join that dysfunctional group, just remember never to engage any of the mods, save for good guys like Mkrass, Kranmars, redmannorth or Moose and pay close attention to the Paultzman's avatars. Go Redmen!
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't 4 out of the 6 players you mentioned (Lindsey, Polee, Hooper, and Adonis) all leave after 1 year? What kind of legacy were you expecting them to leave?
Click to expand...

Maurice Harkless left after one year but his legacy for future players is that he made it to the NBA. I am not talking Carmelo Anthony level legacy here Jumbo but a legacy of success in those one or two years worthy of mentioning to current or future recruits. Walter Berry played only two two years but has had a lasting impression on fans worthy of remembering while Omar Cook left zero, Nurideen Lindsey left zero, while Adonis Delarosa left a very huge impression in Montgoris Hall.
In the Lavin era the number of failures after 12 months on campus is unprecedented at St. John's from Nurideen to Sanchez to Adonis to a Keith Thomas who was allowed to enroll with a false transcript. Sadly, even a great scorer like D'Angelo Harrison who stayed 4 years left little to be remembered given his record breaking stats compared to previous players like Malik Sealy, George Johnson or even sharp shooter Jayson Williams.
Click to expand...

Harkless left after 1 year and a 13-19 record. Exactly how is that a legacy of success?

And if you truly think that Harkless left more of a legacy here than DLo did.....well all I can say is that I feel sorry for you.
Click to expand...

A good job of misreading as usual Jumbo. I wish all our former players the best in life. Harrison is a feel good story of a kid who was dismissed from the team as a soph and who rehabilitated himself. He was a prolific scorer who hoisted a record number of threes. Five years down the line that's about all you, me and others familiar with SJ will remember. Five years hence Mo will still be playing in the NBA. Both are now 22 years of age. Mo earns $3 million per season and will be a player our recruiters will point to in the next couple of years with 15 year olds whose only dream is making the NBA. It's my opinion that D's legacy will be short lived unless you look him up 5 years from now in the St. John's Stat records. Your definition of legacy and mine are different. Scoring a lot of points doesn't qualify if your teams never benefited or succeeded over 4 years, you went undrafted and your current Turkish coach has decided to bench you for poor attitude the past couple of games.
 
Probably, my sarcasm was subtle. My point is, cheerleading is important. However, teaching and coaching is more important. The former coach could not do Xs and Os. The last several games, and the game against Syracuse, shows how Xs and Os can be done well. Lavin and company demonstrated it. They beat the two, three zone.

As for teaching, I always felt that the former coach's recruits came in with a skill set, and left with the same skill set. There appeared to be no development, no teaching. Obekpa is the best example of this failing. He came in as a shot blocker; he left as a shot blocker. No one taught him to find ways use his wing span to score. I felt that if we could have gotten ten points a game from him, we might have done well under the former regime.

In contrast, CM and company seem to have taught Balamou, Jones, and Alibegovich, how to play, how to score.
Click to expand...

May I be the first here to welcome you to redmen.com. Your first post was insightful regarding the last coaching regime. They recruited some of the best athletes at SJ in the past 20 years but in terms of basketball skills they were slow to develop, difficult to coach and as we know, half left early leaving little to no lasting legacy (Nurideen Lindsey, Rasheed Jordan, Dwayne Polee, Max great white hope Hooper, Adonis De La Rosa, his evil brother and Chris bang a gong Obekpa) while Jakarr Sampson and Maurice Harkless benefited from being Lavin golden boys, they played for themselves and only themselves. Most striking of these outstanding athletes Lavin recruited were the ones that never qualified such as Norvel Pelle and Keith Thomas who, if not for their complete disdain for all things academic, could have changed Lavin's career at St. John's to Rico Gathers proportions.
Even the Lavin holdovers you mention had potential as bench players but to this day, that is all they are and ever will be. Yes it was great to see Amar have a breakout game today but this staff will not be suckered into a Phil Greene IV love affair with him. They are also smart enough to have figured out Yakwe will be able to deliver better on court contributions than Felix Balamou or Chris Jones and against a formidable opponent like Cuse both Balamou and Jones were relegated to their natural positions, i.e., playing in less crucial minutes in favor of the quickly developing Yakwe.
I am sure you'll be promoted quickly if your first post is any indication and once you join that dysfunctional group, just remember never to engage any of the mods, save for good guys like Mkrass, Kranmars, redmannorth or Moose and pay close attention to the Paultzman's avatars. Go Redmen!
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't 4 out of the 6 players you mentioned (Lindsey, Polee, Hooper, and Adonis) all leave after 1 year? What kind of legacy were you expecting them to leave?
Click to expand...

Maurice Harkless left after one year but his legacy for future players is that he made it to the NBA. I am not talking Carmelo Anthony level legacy here Jumbo but a legacy of success in those one or two years worthy of mentioning to current or future recruits. Walter Berry played only two two years but has had a lasting impression on fans worthy of remembering while Omar Cook left zero, Nurideen Lindsey left zero, while Adonis Delarosa left a very huge impression in Montgoris Hall.
In the Lavin era the number of failures after 12 months on campus is unprecedented at St. John's from Nurideen to Sanchez to Adonis to a Keith Thomas who was allowed to enroll with a false transcript. Sadly, even a great scorer like D'Angelo Harrison who stayed 4 years left little to be remembered given his record breaking stats compared to previous players like Malik Sealy, George Johnson or even sharp shooter Jayson Williams.
Click to expand...

Harkless left after 1 year and a 13-19 record. Exactly how is that a legacy of success?

And if you truly think that Harkless left more of a legacy here than DLo did.....well all I can say is that I feel sorry for you.
Click to expand...

A good job of misreading as usual Jumbo. I wish all our former players the best in life. Harrison is a feel good story of a kid who was dismissed from the team as a soph and who rehabilitated himself. He was a prolific scorer who hoisted a record number of threes. Five years down the line that's about all you, me and others familiar with SJ will remember. Five years hence Mo will still be playing in the NBA. Both are now 22 years of age. Mo earns $3 million per season and will be a player our recruiters will point to in the next couple of years with 15 year olds whose only dream is making the NBA. It's my opinion that D's legacy will be short lived unless you look him up 5 years from now in the St. John's Stat records. Your definition of legacy and mine are different. Scoring a lot of points doesn't qualify if your teams never benefited or succeeded over 4 years, you went undrafted and your current Turkish coach has decided to bench you for poor attitude the past couple of games.
Click to expand...

How did I misread? You said "Maurice Harkless left after one year but his legacy for future players is that he made it to the NBA. I am not talking Carmelo Anthony level legacy here Jumbo but a legacy of success in those one or two years worthy of mentioning to current or future recruits." The teams record when he was here was 13-19. Please explain to me how that is considered success? My only reasoning is that you consider individual success way more important than team success, and if that is the case, you are rooting for the wrong team.

And do you really think that the name Harkless will be associated with St Johns 5 years from now? Five years from now, if he is still in the league, are people going to say, "There's Maurice Harkless, the product from St Johns."? But five years from now, if you hear the name DLo (and you actually know who he is), you are going to think, 'Oh yea, he is the guy who played at St Johns."

And lastly, you said " Scoring a lot of points doesn't qualify if your teams never benefited or succeeded over 4 years, you went undrafted and your current Turkish coach has decided to bench you for poor attitude the past couple of games."

How did DLo's teams not succeed? In your thinking, only players that make it to the NBA can have any type of legacy at a university, and that's simply just not true.
 
Probably, my sarcasm was subtle. My point is, cheerleading is important. However, teaching and coaching is more important. The former coach could not do Xs and Os. The last several games, and the game against Syracuse, shows how Xs and Os can be done well. Lavin and company demonstrated it. They beat the two, three zone.

As for teaching, I always felt that the former coach's recruits came in with a skill set, and left with the same skill set. There appeared to be no development, no teaching. Obekpa is the best example of this failing. He came in as a shot blocker; he left as a shot blocker. No one taught him to find ways use his wing span to score. I felt that if we could have gotten ten points a game from him, we might have done well under the former regime.

In contrast, CM and company seem to have taught Balamou, Jones, and Alibegovich, how to play, how to score.
Click to expand...

May I be the first here to welcome you to redmen.com. Your first post was insightful regarding the last coaching regime. They recruited some of the best athletes at SJ in the past 20 years but in terms of basketball skills they were slow to develop, difficult to coach and as we know, half left early leaving little to no lasting legacy (Nurideen Lindsey, Rasheed Jordan, Dwayne Polee, Max great white hope Hooper, Adonis De La Rosa, his evil brother and Chris bang a gong Obekpa) while Jakarr Sampson and Maurice Harkless benefited from being Lavin golden boys, they played for themselves and only themselves. Most striking of these outstanding athletes Lavin recruited were the ones that never qualified such as Norvel Pelle and Keith Thomas who, if not for their complete disdain for all things academic, could have changed Lavin's career at St. John's to Rico Gathers proportions.
Even the Lavin holdovers you mention had potential as bench players but to this day, that is all they are and ever will be. Yes it was great to see Amar have a breakout game today but this staff will not be suckered into a Phil Greene IV love affair with him. They are also smart enough to have figured out Yakwe will be able to deliver better on court contributions than Felix Balamou or Chris Jones and against a formidable opponent like Cuse both Balamou and Jones were relegated to their natural positions, i.e., playing in less crucial minutes in favor of the quickly developing Yakwe.
I am sure you'll be promoted quickly if your first post is any indication and once you join that dysfunctional group, just remember never to engage any of the mods, save for good guys like Mkrass, Kranmars, redmannorth or Moose and pay close attention to the Paultzman's avatars. Go Redmen!
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't 4 out of the 6 players you mentioned (Lindsey, Polee, Hooper, and Adonis) all leave after 1 year? What kind of legacy were you expecting them to leave?
Click to expand...

Maurice Harkless left after one year but his legacy for future players is that he made it to the NBA. I am not talking Carmelo Anthony level legacy here Jumbo but a legacy of success in those one or two years worthy of mentioning to current or future recruits. Walter Berry played only two two years but has had a lasting impression on fans worthy of remembering while Omar Cook left zero, Nurideen Lindsey left zero, while Adonis Delarosa left a very huge impression in Montgoris Hall.
In the Lavin era the number of failures after 12 months on campus is unprecedented at St. John's from Nurideen to Sanchez to Adonis to a Keith Thomas who was allowed to enroll with a false transcript. Sadly, even a great scorer like D'Angelo Harrison who stayed 4 years left little to be remembered given his record breaking stats compared to previous players like Malik Sealy, George Johnson or even sharp shooter Jayson Williams.
Click to expand...

Harkless left after 1 year and a 13-19 record. Exactly how is that a legacy of success?

And if you truly think that Harkless left more of a legacy here than DLo did.....well all I can say is that I feel sorry for you.
Click to expand...

A good job of misreading as usual Jumbo. I wish all our former players the best in life. Harrison is a feel good story of a kid who was dismissed from the team as a soph and who rehabilitated himself. He was a prolific scorer who hoisted a record number of threes. Five years down the line that's about all you, me and others familiar with SJ will remember. Five years hence Mo will still be playing in the NBA. Both are now 22 years of age. Mo earns $3 million per season and will be a player our recruiters will point to in the next couple of years with 15 year olds whose only dream is making the NBA. It's my opinion that D's legacy will be short lived unless you look him up 5 years from now in the St. John's Stat records. Your definition of legacy and mine are different. Scoring a lot of points doesn't qualify if your teams never benefited or succeeded over 4 years, you went undrafted and your current Turkish coach has decided to bench you for poor attitude the past couple of games.
Click to expand...

How did I misread? You said "Maurice Harkless left after one year but his legacy for future players is that he made it to the NBA. I am not talking Carmelo Anthony level legacy here Jumbo but a legacy of success in those one or two years worthy of mentioning to current or future recruits." The teams record when he was here was 13-19. Please explain to me how that is considered success? My only reasoning is that you consider individual success way more important than team success, and if that is the case, you are rooting for the wrong team.


How did DLo's teams not succeed? In your thinking, only players that make it to the NBA can have any type of legacy at a university, and that's simply just not true.
Click to expand...

D'Lo benefited by playing for one of the most lax coaches in SJ history. He was a veritable train wreck his first two years when his teams went 11–17 and 17-16. He was dismissed from the team by the end of his soph year. By his junior year his team finally won 20 games and went to defeat in the first round of the NIT. His senior year his team went 21–12 with all upperclassmen. Finally, because his teams were so successful, his coach got fired, he went undrafted and now has been benched by his Turkish coach. He got his points from the benefit of being coached by a guy who believed in a free form offense that allowed D to chuck shots instead of passing to teammates. You are free to Mary Contrary my opinion all you want. It's a free country. Now I'm too busy worrying about a really big game against Incarnate Word, a school whose name could be the title of an x rated novel.
 
Probably, my sarcasm was subtle. My point is, cheerleading is important. However, teaching and coaching is more important. The former coach could not do Xs and Os. The last several games, and the game against Syracuse, shows how Xs and Os can be done well. Lavin and company demonstrated it. They beat the two, three zone.

As for teaching, I always felt that the former coach's recruits came in with a skill set, and left with the same skill set. There appeared to be no development, no teaching. Obekpa is the best example of this failing. He came in as a shot blocker; he left as a shot blocker. No one taught him to find ways use his wing span to score. I felt that if we could have gotten ten points a game from him, we might have done well under the former regime.

In contrast, CM and company seem to have taught Balamou, Jones, and Alibegovich, how to play, how to score.
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May I be the first here to welcome you to redmen.com. Your first post was insightful regarding the last coaching regime. They recruited some of the best athletes at SJ in the past 20 years but in terms of basketball skills they were slow to develop, difficult to coach and as we know, half left early leaving little to no lasting legacy (Nurideen Lindsey, Rasheed Jordan, Dwayne Polee, Max great white hope Hooper, Adonis De La Rosa, his evil brother and Chris bang a gong Obekpa) while Jakarr Sampson and Maurice Harkless benefited from being Lavin golden boys, they played for themselves and only themselves. Most striking of these outstanding athletes Lavin recruited were the ones that never qualified such as Norvel Pelle and Keith Thomas who, if not for their complete disdain for all things academic, could have changed Lavin's career at St. John's to Rico Gathers proportions.
Even the Lavin holdovers you mention had potential as bench players but to this day, that is all they are and ever will be. Yes it was great to see Amar have a breakout game today but this staff will not be suckered into a Phil Greene IV love affair with him. They are also smart enough to have figured out Yakwe will be able to deliver better on court contributions than Felix Balamou or Chris Jones and against a formidable opponent like Cuse both Balamou and Jones were relegated to their natural positions, i.e., playing in less crucial minutes in favor of the quickly developing Yakwe.
I am sure you'll be promoted quickly if your first post is any indication and once you join that dysfunctional group, just remember never to engage any of the mods, save for good guys like Mkrass, Kranmars, redmannorth or Moose and pay close attention to the Paultzman's avatars. Go Redmen!
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't 4 out of the 6 players you mentioned (Lindsey, Polee, Hooper, and Adonis) all leave after 1 year? What kind of legacy were you expecting them to leave?
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Maurice Harkless left after one year but his legacy for future players is that he made it to the NBA. I am not talking Carmelo Anthony level legacy here Jumbo but a legacy of success in those one or two years worthy of mentioning to current or future recruits. Walter Berry played only two two years but has had a lasting impression on fans worthy of remembering while Omar Cook left zero, Nurideen Lindsey left zero, while Adonis Delarosa left a very huge impression in Montgoris Hall.
In the Lavin era the number of failures after 12 months on campus is unprecedented at St. John's from Nurideen to Sanchez to Adonis to a Keith Thomas who was allowed to enroll with a false transcript. Sadly, even a great scorer like D'Angelo Harrison who stayed 4 years left little to be remembered given his record breaking stats compared to previous players like Malik Sealy, George Johnson or even sharp shooter Jayson Williams.
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Harkless left after 1 year and a 13-19 record. Exactly how is that a legacy of success?

And if you truly think that Harkless left more of a legacy here than DLo did.....well all I can say is that I feel sorry for you.
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A good job of misreading as usual Jumbo. I wish all our former players the best in life. Harrison is a feel good story of a kid who was dismissed from the team as a soph and who rehabilitated himself. He was a prolific scorer who hoisted a record number of threes. Five years down the line that's about all you, me and others familiar with SJ will remember. Five years hence Mo will still be playing in the NBA. Both are now 22 years of age. Mo earns $3 million per season and will be a player our recruiters will point to in the next couple of years with 15 year olds whose only dream is making the NBA. It's my opinion that D's legacy will be short lived unless you look him up 5 years from now in the St. John's Stat records. Your definition of legacy and mine are different. Scoring a lot of points doesn't qualify if your teams never benefited or succeeded over 4 years, you went undrafted and your current Turkish coach has decided to bench you for poor attitude the past couple of games.
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How did I misread? You said "Maurice Harkless left after one year but his legacy for future players is that he made it to the NBA. I am not talking Carmelo Anthony level legacy here Jumbo but a legacy of success in those one or two years worthy of mentioning to current or future recruits." The teams record when he was here was 13-19. Please explain to me how that is considered success? My only reasoning is that you consider individual success way more important than team success, and if that is the case, you are rooting for the wrong team.


How did DLo's teams not succeed? In your thinking, only players that make it to the NBA can have any type of legacy at a university, and that's simply just not true.
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D'Lo benefited by playing for one of the most lax coaches in SJ history. He was a veritable train wreck his first two years when his teams went 11–17 and 17-16. He was dismissed from the team by the end of his soph year. By his junior year his team finally won 20 games and went to defeat in the first round of the NIT. His senior year his team went 21–12 with all upperclassmen. Finally, because his teams were so successful, his coach got fired, he went undrafted and now has been benched by his Turkish coach. He got his points from the benefit of being coached by a guy who believed in a free form offense that allowed D to chuck shots instead of passing to teammates. You are free to Mary Contrary my opinion all you want. It's a free country. Now I'm too busy worrying about a really big game against Incarnate Word, a school whose name could be the title of an x rated novel.
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And what were Harkless's success here?
 
Hey 72 what do you think about some of the other Mods? It would be great to give the rooks down here of what they can expect in the show. We know it's not for the faint of heart.


PS - Joe although we encourage sarcasm here in the bush leagues be careful with it in the show. It is usually frowned upon as they dont tend to get it...
 
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