Are we going to be primarily in a zone defense?

[guinness77]

I'm sorry if this topic has been broached already, but I haven't really been around lately, and forgive my ignorance because I didn't see the Humboldt game or (duh) any practices, but seeing as how this roster is constructed and the loss of Thomas, we most certainly will have to rely on a zone defense for the most part, no?

I would love to see a 1-press with CO at the back fall into a 2-3 with CO in the middle, or some kind of a 1-2-2 with CO and another big on the other block.

I only bring this topic up because I can't see how we can go man-to-man against most teams, Big East, or non-Big East. We will undoubtedly be in foul trouble almost every game because we lack the kind of depth on the blocks, I feel, required to be a quality team. Guys like CO and DP will foul out nightly. A zone, and we'd have to see how this goes of course, would force teams to bomb threes or to penetrate toward CO and I think Obekpa altering shots while our 3 and 4 box their men out is really our only choice to stay out of foul trouble and for Lavin to shorten the rotation.

I know, a zone defense really isn't the SJU way, but this has been in my head recently and figured I'd bring it up for what some of you think.

 

[Andrew]

We played mostly man against Humboldt in the first half and early second half, and they were getting off open shots from the outside and getting around many of our defenders. If it wasn't for Obekpa blocking or altering a ton of shots it would have been an embarrassment. In the second half we played more two three zone with Branch and Harrison up top and Jordan, Obekpa and Pointer down low. Pointer was subbed out a lot and Amar got most of the minutes in this defense. I thought it worked much better, especially because Jordan was excellent in this defense. Regardless of the defense we had the usual inability to cover the open three point shooter. We tried pressing a little but as always Lavin will never do that with any level of continuity. I am not normally a fan of zone either but I think this team should play it most of the time.

 

[beast of the east]

I think like many successful coaches today, Lavin would really prefer the zone. Every year he starts out going to zone often, and then when we get into competitive games where out porous zone won't work, we go back to man. It's really damned frustrating because either our staff can't teach a zone, our we recruit the wrong guys to play zone (see Syracuse for success there), or our guys aren't very smart defender willing to work harder on defense than a boxscore line.

 

[Marillac]

I think the plan going into the season was to play man as much as possible, but losing KT threw a wrench into that. The reality now is that we are going to be playing Dom 20-25 mpg at the four and to hide him most effectively, we'll need to zone. Obekpa likes being in the middle of the 2-3 better than playing man to man. Guys have success taking right at him in man defense, but he's lethal off the ball with the help d.

Obviously they will have to mix it up, but I'd think 60/40 zone.

I think the most important thing to do is to press and apply pressure all game. When you run out three guards and a SF playing PF, you want to avoid the half court as much as possible. Dom would be by far the most athletic PF in the country and would essentially give us four defensive guards and Obekpa. None of this man press b.s. Zone press or matchup zone and keep Obekpa back as a goaltender.

 

[SJU1512]

I think the plan going into the season was to play man as much as possible, but losing KT threw a wrench into that. The reality now is that we are going to be playing Dom 20-25 mpg at the four and to hide him most effectively, we'll need to zone. Obekpa likes being in the middle of the 2-3 better than playing man to man. Guys have success taking right at him in man defense, but he's lethal off the ball with the help d.

Obviously they will have to mix it up, but I'd think 60/40 zone.

I think the most important thing to do is to press and apply pressure all game. When you run out three guards and a SF playing PF, you want to avoid the half court as much as possible. Dom would be by far the most athletic PF in the country and would essentially give us four defensive guards and Obekpa. None of this man press b.s. Zone press or matchup zone and keep Obekpa back as a goaltender.

Bingo. I don't care what we fall back into in the half court as long as we press. And I don't care if it's man pressure, zone pressure, or, ideally, a mix of both as Dunlap effectuated so well in 10/11. As long as we are dictating the tempo and increasing the amount of possessions in the game. We don't execute well enough in the half court not to do these things.

 

[Jack Williams]

Our favorite twitter guy JayOn just tweeted that Lavin has had the team working on their zone defense all week

 

[Amaseinyourface]

I dont hate playing zone. I actually might like it better with this group. Just dont get too cute with it. Have Obekpa stay as close to the basket as possible.

But just cause we play zone doesnt mean we shouldn't press. The press still needs to be priority 1.

 

[McGarry2]

I dont hate playing zone. I actually might like it better with this group. Just dont get too cute with it. Have Obekpa stay as close to the basket as possible.

But just cause we play zone doesnt mean we shouldn't press. The press still needs to be priority 1.

This group lacks the speed to press effectively.

`Lavin as a player was. not his old man because he was pulling a wagon. In a word he was SLOW.
What or anything this to do with the majority of his recruits ranging from slow to average I do not know

 

[Amaseinyourface]

I dont hate playing zone. I actually might like it better with this group. Just dont get too cute with it. Have Obekpa stay as close to the basket as possible.

But just cause we play zone doesnt mean we shouldn't press. The press still needs to be priority 1.

This group lacks the speed to press effectively.

`Lavin as a player was. not his old man because he was pulling a wagon. In a word he was SLOW.
What or anything this to do with the majority of his recruits ranging from slow to average I do not know

Im sorry what?

 

[1and1sju]

I think the plan going into the season was to play man as much as possible, but losing KT threw a wrench into that. The reality now is that we are going to be playing Dom 20-25 mpg at the four and to hide him most effectively, we'll need to zone. Obekpa likes being in the middle of the 2-3 better than playing man to man. Guys have success taking right at him in man defense, but he's lethal off the ball with the help d.

Obviously they will have to mix it up, but I'd think 60/40 zone.

I think the most important thing to do is to press and apply pressure all game. When you run out three guards and a SF playing PF, you want to avoid the half court as much as possible. Dom would be by far the most athletic PF in the country and would essentially give us four defensive guards and Obekpa. None of this man press b.s. Zone press or matchup zone and keep Obekpa back as a goaltender.

This is the smartest thing you've said in several years. Kudos.

I would just add that the 2-3 is fine, and does seem to fit our personnel. I can also live with a 1-3-1. The matchup zone, however, should be thrown away.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

We played mostly man against Humboldt in the first half and early second half, and they were getting off open shots from the outside and getting around many of our defenders. If it wasn't for Obekpa blocking or altering a ton of shots it would have been an embarrassment. In the second half we played more two three zone with Branch and Harrison up top and Jordan, Obekpa and Pointer down low. Pointer was subbed out a lot and Amar got most of the minutes in this defense. I thought it worked much better, especially because Jordan was excellent in this defense. Regardless of the defense we had the usual inability to cover the open three point shooter. We tried pressing a little but as always Lavin will never do that with any level of continuity. I am not normally a fan of zone either but I think this team should play it most of the time.

We didnt play any 2-3 in the second half.

 

[beast of the east]

I think the plan going into the season was to play man as much as possible, but losing KT threw a wrench into that. The reality now is that we are going to be playing Dom 20-25 mpg at the four and to hide him most effectively, we'll need to zone. Obekpa likes being in the middle of the 2-3 better than playing man to man. Guys have success taking right at him in man defense, but he's lethal off the ball with the help d.

Obviously they will have to mix it up, but I'd think 60/40 zone.

I think the most important thing to do is to press and apply pressure all game. When you run out three guards and a SF playing PF, you want to avoid the half court as much as possible. Dom would be by far the most athletic PF in the country and would essentially give us four defensive guards and Obekpa. None of this man press b.s. Zone press or matchup zone and keep Obekpa back as a goaltender.

Bingo. I don't care what we fall back into in the half court as long as we press. And I don't care if it's man pressure, zone pressure, or, ideally, a mix of both as Dunlap effectuated so well in 10/11. As long as we are dictating the tempo and increasing the amount of possessions in the game. We don't execute well enough in the half court not to do these things.

Deferring to those more astute than I. If you press, don't you usually have to fall back into a zone or else you could lose your man?

 

[austour]

Honestly can't remember. What kind of defense did Jay Wright usually run with his four guard lineup?

 

[SJU1512]

I think the plan going into the season was to play man as much as possible, but losing KT threw a wrench into that. The reality now is that we are going to be playing Dom 20-25 mpg at the four and to hide him most effectively, we'll need to zone. Obekpa likes being in the middle of the 2-3 better than playing man to man. Guys have success taking right at him in man defense, but he's lethal off the ball with the help d.

Obviously they will have to mix it up, but I'd think 60/40 zone.

I think the most important thing to do is to press and apply pressure all game. When you run out three guards and a SF playing PF, you want to avoid the half court as much as possible. Dom would be by far the most athletic PF in the country and would essentially give us four defensive guards and Obekpa. None of this man press b.s. Zone press or matchup zone and keep Obekpa back as a goaltender.

Bingo. I don't care what we fall back into in the half court as long as we press. And I don't care if it's man pressure, zone pressure, or, ideally, a mix of both as Dunlap effectuated so well in 10/11. As long as we are dictating the tempo and increasing the amount of possessions in the game. We don't execute well enough in the half court not to do these things.

Deferring to those more astute than I. If you press, don't you usually have to fall back into a zone or else you could lose your man?

Depends on the type of press. If you press man typically you'll fall back into man, if you zone press typically you'll fall back into a zone. Teams do so many sophisticated things now defensively you're not really boxed into anything though.

 

[beast of the east]

I think the plan going into the season was to play man as much as possible, but losing KT threw a wrench into that. The reality now is that we are going to be playing Dom 20-25 mpg at the four and to hide him most effectively, we'll need to zone. Obekpa likes being in the middle of the 2-3 better than playing man to man. Guys have success taking right at him in man defense, but he's lethal off the ball with the help d.

Obviously they will have to mix it up, but I'd think 60/40 zone.

I think the most important thing to do is to press and apply pressure all game. When you run out three guards and a SF playing PF, you want to avoid the half court as much as possible. Dom would be by far the most athletic PF in the country and would essentially give us four defensive guards and Obekpa. None of this man press b.s. Zone press or matchup zone and keep Obekpa back as a goaltender.

Bingo. I don't care what we fall back into in the half court as long as we press. And I don't care if it's man pressure, zone pressure, or, ideally, a mix of both as Dunlap effectuated so well in 10/11. As long as we are dictating the tempo and increasing the amount of possessions in the game. We don't execute well enough in the half court not to do these things.

Deferring to those more astute than I. If you press, don't you usually have to fall back into a zone or else you could lose your man?

Depends on the type of press. If you press man typically you'll fall back into man, if you zone press typically you'll fall back into a zone. Teams do so many sophisticated things now defensively you're not really boxed into anything though.

OF course if you press man to man you can keep playing man. But with a zone press it's a little harder to find a man once you drop back. I'm not aware that you can zone press and fall back into a man, but someone else may add to this dialogue.

 

[SJU1512]

I think the plan going into the season was to play man as much as possible, but losing KT threw a wrench into that. The reality now is that we are going to be playing Dom 20-25 mpg at the four and to hide him most effectively, we'll need to zone. Obekpa likes being in the middle of the 2-3 better than playing man to man. Guys have success taking right at him in man defense, but he's lethal off the ball with the help d.

Obviously they will have to mix it up, but I'd think 60/40 zone.

I think the most important thing to do is to press and apply pressure all game. When you run out three guards and a SF playing PF, you want to avoid the half court as much as possible. Dom would be by far the most athletic PF in the country and would essentially give us four defensive guards and Obekpa. None of this man press b.s. Zone press or matchup zone and keep Obekpa back as a goaltender.

Bingo. I don't care what we fall back into in the half court as long as we press. And I don't care if it's man pressure, zone pressure, or, ideally, a mix of both as Dunlap effectuated so well in 10/11. As long as we are dictating the tempo and increasing the amount of possessions in the game. We don't execute well enough in the half court not to do these things.

Deferring to those more astute than I. If you press, don't you usually have to fall back into a zone or else you could lose your man?

Depends on the type of press. If you press man typically you'll fall back into man, if you zone press typically you'll fall back into a zone. Teams do so many sophisticated things now defensively you're not really boxed into anything though.

OF course if you press man to man you can keep playing man. But with a zone press it's a little harder to find a man once you drop back. I'm not aware that you can zone press and fall back into a man, but someone else may add to this dialogue.

Agreed, of all the possible combinations zone press to man in the half court is most unlikely and seldom used.

I want us to do whatever is most practical and effective in the half court, my point was just that I think that's secondary to our need to press. If we press, I think a lot of our half-court issues (on both ends of the floor) get neutralized in a major way. I'm also a fan of mixing defenses, especially against superior opponents, because it's rare that you can disrupt quality offenses for 40 minutes doing the same thing without them adjusting.

But again I think that takes a back-seat to just applying pressure. This roster isn't quite as well-suited to press as last year's team was, but I think this team may be forced to press more to maximize results because of their ample speed/quickness and lack of size.

 

[simplyred]

OTwo things:

1. If we press, be prepared for the fouls 60 feet away from the basket. We will have to learn to luve with some inadvertent fouls in areas of the court where the offensiv man is nta threat to score. I can hear posters screaming about stupid fouls already.

2. Pardon my ignorance but can someone explain to me what the matchup zone is and how it differs from other zone schemes.

 

[SJU1512]

OTwo things:

1. If we press, be prepared for the fouls 60 feet away from the basket. We will have to learn to luve with some inadvertent fouls in areas of the court where the offensiv man is nta threat to score. I can hear posters screaming about stupid fouls already.

2. Pardon my ignorance but can someone explain to me what the matchup zone is and how it differs from other zone schemes.

I figure we are going to foul 50 feet away from the basket no matter what, so may as well do it while speeding the game up and forcing some turnovers! But I can see those complaints coming already as well.

Matchup zones have taken on a lot of different variations, but fundamentally it's just a combination defense that incorporates both man and zone principles.

 

[Marillac]

I think the plan going into the season was to play man as much as possible, but losing KT threw a wrench into that. The reality now is that we are going to be playing Dom 20-25 mpg at the four and to hide him most effectively, we'll need to zone. Obekpa likes being in the middle of the 2-3 better than playing man to man. Guys have success taking right at him in man defense, but he's lethal off the ball with the help d.

Obviously they will have to mix it up, but I'd think 60/40 zone.

I think the most important thing to do is to press and apply pressure all game. When you run out three guards and a SF playing PF, you want to avoid the half court as much as possible. Dom would be by far the most athletic PF in the country and would essentially give us four defensive guards and Obekpa. None of this man press b.s. Zone press or matchup zone and keep Obekpa back as a goaltender.

Bingo. I don't care what we fall back into in the half court as long as we press. And I don't care if it's man pressure, zone pressure, or, ideally, a mix of both as Dunlap effectuated so well in 10/11. As long as we are dictating the tempo and increasing the amount of possessions in the game. We don't execute well enough in the half court not to do these things.

Deferring to those more astute than I. If you press, don't you usually have to fall back into a zone or else you could lose your man?

There are several different types of presses. Most teams press zone because you can lose your man really easily and get your bigs pulled out to dangerous areas in a man press We mostly ran a man press and smart coaches had their bigs setting screens and swinging the ball to help get the ball over midcourt and to draw Obekpa from the basket area--leaving him more prone to horrible fouls and leaving the basket open for a layup drill.

Louisville runs a matchup zone press and they leave their big man back to goal tend.

I don't think our guys are too slow to press. I think their technique and hustle can use some enhancement, as most are terrible at recovering.

 

[room112]

I could be mistaken, but didn't we have some success last year when we mixed it up on defense and showed different looks so that the other team was kept off guard all night.