50th anniversary of the Knicks 1970 championship.

beast of the east

beast of the east

Active member
Say it ain't so!

For me at least, this was a sentinel moment in my life, one of those where you remember exactly where you were when it occurred.

I was at a scouts meeting so I don't remember if back in those days, even game 7 at home was blacked out on local tv.

My very generous older brother loaned me his transistor radio so I could listen to the game when I could. I remember trying to hide the ear plug behind my longer hair and tried to go unnoticed as we started the 7 pm meeting in paramilitary fashion.

Back then, none of my friends ever stayed glued to TV sets for playoff games in any sport. We listened to epic Knicks-Bulltets, Knicks-Celtics, Knicks-LAkers games in the schoolyards as we played half court pickup games. SoI wasn't going to stay home to listen to a game on radio, that's for sure.

Marv Alpert made listening on radio in some ways much better than watching on TV. He had a cadence that could articulate the Knicks crisp ball movement, "Barnett on the right side, puts the ball on the floor, swings to Frazier at the top of the key, to the corner to BRadley... side jump Yes!"

He also could narrate beautifully the passion that rocked the Garden, "Reed rebounds, ahead to DeBusschere, finds Frazier ahead of the field, LAYS IT UP AND IN. Knicks by 3. Celtics inbound, STOLEN BY FRAZIER HE LAYS IT UP AND IN, YES AND IT COUNTS. FOUL ON THE PLAY. KNICKS BY 5. WALT FRAZIER TO THE LINE. CELTICS CALL FOR TIME"

So I remember John Condon announcing the starting lineups in his familiar twang. All of a sudden, perhaps the biggest moment ever in NY sports could not be heard over radio. Willis Reed was surprisingly announced in the starting lineup to a thunderous ovation that shook the building and the Lakers. Game was over before the jump ball. Reed hits his first two shots, Frazier carries the team, and the rest was history.
 
An iconic team and one of the greatest collections of talent of any NY pro sports team since the Yankees of Murders' Row.
Incredibly 73 had more talent with HOFers Pearl and Lucas.
 
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A co worker lived in Stuy Town, invited a bunch of guys over to watch the game which he got on some cable outlet. Game was anti climatic. Laker backcourtman could not get the ball to Chamberlain who had such a physical advantage over the hurt Reed, DeBushere and Stallworth sand Frazier was outstanding.
 
[quote="MainMan" post=386837]An iconic team and one of the greatest collections of talent of any NY pro sports team since the Yankees of Murders' Row.
Actually 73 had more talent with HOFers Pearl and Lucas.[/quote]

Good debate topic. 69-70 team had Cazzie Russell, Stallworth, and Phil Jackson playing important roles off the bench. Reed was at the pinnacle of his career, as was DeBusschere, and perhaps Frazier was a better player in 69-70 than he was three years later and just a tad slower. Barnett was near the end, but had a great season also. Bradley emerged that year as a very solid player.

Reed was a shell of the player he was in 69-70. Lucas was thrust into the Center's position, and was really at the tail end of a career as an all-star forward.. Lucas/Reed were probably better than Reed/Bowman, but that's debatable because in 69-70 Reed was one of the best centers in the league.

Monroe was a great addition, still near the top of his game in 73, but either by age/injury/or by design, was not the dominant scorer he was in his Bullet days. I would say that was mostly by design of a better supporting cast, but the other factors were there also.

The 73 team was a well constructed team, but I believe 69-70 was better, with more depth.
 
MainMan wrote: An iconic team and one of the greatest collections of talent of any NY pro sports team since the Yankees of Murders' Row.
Actually 73 had more talent with HOFers Pearl and Lucas.


Beast of The East wrote: Good debate topic. 69-70 team had Cazzie Russell, Stallworth, and Phil Jackson playing important roles off the bench. Reed was at the pinnacle of his career, as was DeBusschere, and perhaps Frazier was a better player in 69-70 than he was three years later and just a tad slower. Barnett was near the end, but had a great season also. Bradley emerged that year as a very solid player.

Reed was a shell of the player he was in 69-70. Lucas was thrust into the Center's position, and was really at the tail end of a career as an all-star forward.. Lucas/Reed were probably better than Reed/Bowman, but that's debatable because in 69-70 Reed was one of the best centers in the league.

Monroe was a great addition, still near the top of his game in 73, but either by age/injury/or by design, was not the dominant scorer he was in his Bullet days. I would say that was mostly by design of a better supporting cast, but the other factors were there also.

The 73 team was a well constructed team, but I believe 69-70 was better, with more depth.



This is kind of like comparing apples to oranges. Like one's first love the first championship is always the sweetest. That said both teams were great but different.

My recollection was that for the 1973 team Lucas had the ability as a big to stretch the floor with deep bombs and that created a high post offense that was very hard to defend. (That was way ahead of his time. Imagine how effective Lucas would have been with the three point shot). The spacing from his range also made the Knicks legendary ball movement even more effective. Monroe's deferment to the team concept was a thing of beauty and stands as a testament on how winning overrides ego and on how team overrides the individual. Also I believe that the 1973 versions of Frazier, DeBusschere and Bradley were every bit as good and posiibly better than their 1969 version. I would also add that Dean the Dream Memminger was a great defender off the bench and Phil Jackson added value from the bench too. Neither of them were part of the 1969 squad although Cazzie Russell, Dave Stallworth and Mike Riordan all had important bench roles in 1969.

The 1969 team definitely had the better regular season and was the far more memorable story with Willis being the heart and soul of it all and the center point of the final game drama. Additionally their chemistry was terrific and Dick Barnett was still a very important piece. It must also be said that with both teams Red Holzman was a master of putting it all together and was absolutely critical to making them champions.

I actually have no real dog in this race between the two championship teams but remember both of them very fondly. I will say that Fifty years is a long time and as a New Yorker it would be great to see the Knicks become relevant and approach some greatness again in my lifetime.
 
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I was a kid back then who really discovered sports in earnest with the '69 Mets but I had knowlege of the 1969 Super Bowl and then this. I assumed NY was the center of the sports universe. LOL
 
I remember in one article covering one of the payoff series in 73, the reporter was observing a Knicks practice. He wrote that Lucas was squaring up from just inside half court and nailed something like 30 shots in a row..

Lucas was a brilliant student. I believe he graduated from Ohio State with a 4.0 GPA.

He would correctly postulate that the higher the arc on his shot, the better chance the ball had to go through the cylinder..

I don't remember him as an outside shooter with the Royals or Warriors, but in those days, you rarely saw games on TV
 
[quote="MainMan" post=386837]An iconic team and one of the greatest collections of talent of any NY pro sports team since the Yankees of Murders' Row.
Incredibly 73 had more talent with HOFers Pearl and Lucas.[/quote]

The '69 team was superb but those of us who bleed Celtics green still believe that the '73 championship was lost with Havlicek's shoulder injury.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=386851][quote="MainMan" post=386837]An iconic team and one of the greatest collections of talent of any NY pro sports team since the Yankees of Murders' Row.
Incredibly 73 had more talent with HOFers Pearl and Lucas.[/quote]

The '69 team was superb but those of us who bleed Celtics green still believe that the '73 championship was lost with Havlicek's shoulder injury.[/quote]

I hated the Celtics but loved Havlicek. Mullin wore number 20 at St John's, but 17 in the pros because HAvlicek was his favorite player. (In college you could only use digits 0 to 5, so refs can indicate fouls to the scorer's table with one hand.)
 
Every sports nut has their best favorite team memories. My favorite sport has always been basketball and my favorite pro team the Knicks. I was 17 and 20 when the Knicks won their only two championships so naturally have great memories of those days. As Ghostzapper said, the first time is always the best so I slightly favor the 1970 team but they were both great, great teams. Both had relatively short but effective benches. One difference in 1973 team was Lucas & Reed actually split minutes so they effectively had 6 starters with Dean Meminger & Jackson the two other guys playing meaningful minutes. 1970 team had 5 true starters with Russell, Riordan & Stallworth all playing meaningful minutes and Bowman getting a few minutes a game to rest Reed.
Lucas had a great year in 1972 when Reed missed the season due to injury and really established himself then as a deadly outside shooter and very effective passer. He had almost 5 assists per game with 1973 championship team.
During 1970 season for sure there was only cable tv coverage which we didn't get in Queens so we either listened on radio or went to a bar just over the 59th street bridge to watch on TV (wasn't hard to get into bars at 17 in those days, lol).
I vividly remember listening to the famous final game in the 1970 finals in the Frontier Palace just down the road from SJU. I think the owner was a guy named Herbie in those days.
 
[quote="austour" post=386846]I was a kid back then who really discovered sports in earnest with the '69 Mets but I had knowlege of the 1969 Super Bowl and then this. I assumed NY was the center of the sports universe. LOL[/quote]

Austour, SNY has been airing the 1969 WS full games. The broadcasts are NBC. The announcers are Curt Gowdy, Lindsey Nelson and Bill O’Donnell. Tonight is Game 5. Just wondering if you know. The first two games in Baltimore are both black and white. Yet when the Series shifts to Shea Stadium Starting with Game 3 the game is broadcast in full color? I was around but just too young. Trust me I have had a b/w TV. Was there any reason though that the game (a WS game) was captured in b/w and then the other games are in color?
 
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For those interested there is a great book called Take it All. The book chronicles the season and mainly the playoffs. Special photography by Phil "Action" Jackson
 
sjc88 wrote: Austour, SNY has been airing the 1969 WS full games. The broadcasts are NBC. The announcers are Curt Gowdy, Lindsey Nelson and Bill O’Donnell. Tonight is Game 5. Just wondering if you know. The first two games in Baltimore are both black and white. Yet when the Series shifts to Shea Stadium Starting with Game 3 the game is broadcast in full color? I was around but just too young. Trust me I have had a b/w TV. Was there any reason though that the game (a WS game) was captured in b/w and then the other games are in color?

The answer is that the Color video of games one and two did not survive and all they have are Black and White Kinescopes of those games.

Many gems from the 60s and even the 70s were lost and the idea of archiving broadcasts was not fully developed. Videotape was fragile and many things deterorated or got lost back then.
 
The 1969-70 Knicks team was pure basketball at it's finest
You saw basic skills, teams running sets, playing hard nosed defense, etc
Not like what you unfortunately see in the NBA today
I feel the same way about baseball
Back then, you saw strategy (bunts, steals, hit & run, moving runners over, etc)
Today, 40% of all at bats are either walks, strikeouts or home runs
IMO, the 21st century version of the NBA and MLB are shells of what I grew up with
Who says newer is better?
 
[quote="ghostzapper" post=386881]sjc88 wrote: Austour, SNY has been airing the 1969 WS full games. The broadcasts are NBC. The announcers are Curt Gowdy, Lindsey Nelson and Bill O’Donnell. Tonight is Game 5. Just wondering if you know. The first two games in Baltimore are both black and white. Yet when the Series shifts to Shea Stadium Starting with Game 3 the game is broadcast in full color? I was around but just too young. Trust me I have had a b/w TV. Was there any reason though that the game (a WS game) was captured in b/w and then the other games are in color?

The answer is that the Color video of games one and two did not survive and all they have are Black and White Kinescopes of those games.

Many gems from the 60s and even the 70s were lost and the idea of archiving broadcasts was not fully developed. Videotape was fragile and many things deterorated or got lost back then.[/quote]

Thanks for the info. What a shame that is. Games one and two are pretty hard to watch.
 
I was a sophomore at St. John's at the time living in a rented house with a bunch of out of state kids and we all listened to the games on radio with Marv Albert doing play by play which was almost like being at the game since we didn't own a TV set.
1970 was a great year for NYC basketball on both the pro and college level. Between 68 and 70 the Knicks were great and St. John's and Columbia were national basketball powers. I attended all of our games at both the Garden and Alumni Hall which in 1970 was an East Regional site for the NCAA tournament.
Oddly neither St. John's or the Lions were represented since the Ivy League was tough with Princeton and Penn being dominant and the tournament was limited to something like 25 teams. We played in the NIT in 1970 but Columbia didn't get an invitation since the NIT that year was as good as the NCAA tournament.
 
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