jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304692804577283403171721574.html
1972 U.S. Olympic Basketball Team
- Thread starter jerseyshorejohnny
- Start date
Hank Iba's inflexibility also cost the US team it's best center that year. UCLA's Swen Nater made the team. But Swen suffers (or at least did 40 years ago) from sever insomnia. He wasn't partier or night owl, but he simply couldn't sleep till someimes 6 or 7 am. Iba refused to make any allowance, and cut Swen from the team. Swen would go on to be the ABA's Rookie of the year, a two-time all star, in the NBA's top 25 all time in FG%, and is the only player ever to lead both the ABA and NBA in rebounding. (16.4 per game for ther ABA Spurs, 15.0 for the Clippers) - his 10 year pro average was 12 boards a game.
The end of the game is a moot point if we play that Olympics with Swen. Ironically, the player on the initial squad MOST suited to playing Iba's offense.
Obviously, in the photo that's Swen on the left, standing beside the 1932 and 1972/73/74 college players of the year.
Hank Iba's inflexibility also cost the US team it's best center that year. UCLA's Swen Nater made the team. But Swen suffers (or at least did 40 years ago) from sever insomnia. He wasn't partier or night owl, but he simply couldn't sleep till someimes 6 or 7 am. Iba refused to make any allowance, and cut Swen from the team. Swen would go on to be the ABA's Rookie of the year, a two-time all star, in the NBA's top 25 all time in FG%, and is the only player ever to lead both the ABA and NBA in rebounding. (16.4 per game for ther ABA Spurs, 15.0 for the Clippers) - his 10 year pro average was 12 boards a game.
The end of the game is a moot point if we play that Olympics with Swen. Ironically, the player on the initial squad MOST suited to playing Iba's offense.
Obviously, in the photo that's Swen on the left, standing beside the 1932 and 1972/73/74 college players of the year.
Wooden was the player of the year? never knew that.
Hank Iba's inflexibility also cost the US team it's best center that year. UCLA's Swen Nater made the team. But Swen suffers (or at least did 40 years ago) from sever insomnia. He wasn't partier or night owl, but he simply couldn't sleep till someimes 6 or 7 am. Iba refused to make any allowance, and cut Swen from the team. Swen would go on to be the ABA's Rookie of the year, a two-time all star, in the NBA's top 25 all time in FG%, and is the only player ever to lead both the ABA and NBA in rebounding. (16.4 per game for ther ABA Spurs, 15.0 for the Clippers) - his 10 year pro average was 12 boards a game.
The end of the game is a moot point if we play that Olympics with Swen. Ironically, the player on the initial squad MOST suited to playing Iba's offense.
Obviously, in the photo that's Swen on the left, standing beside the 1932 and 1972/73/74 college players of the year.
With all due respect (although I have been told that is a demeaning phrase by some on the board, in this case I sincerely mean it) I'm not sure Nater would have made that big a difference. I agree Iba's stubbornness was the main problem but his style was the issue, not the team. When he was selected as the coach many knew we were potentially in trouble; his selection negated our biggest advantages, speed and creativity. The American selection of coach was based on an arrogance that it didn't matter who coached and the selection of IBA kept that game close enough for us to be cheated out of the victory.
Hank Iba's inflexibility also cost the US team it's best center that year. UCLA's Swen Nater made the team. But Swen suffers (or at least did 40 years ago) from sever insomnia. He wasn't partier or night owl, but he simply couldn't sleep till someimes 6 or 7 am. Iba refused to make any allowance, and cut Swen from the team. Swen would go on to be the ABA's Rookie of the year, a two-time all star, in the NBA's top 25 all time in FG%, and is the only player ever to lead both the ABA and NBA in rebounding. (16.4 per game for ther ABA Spurs, 15.0 for the Clippers) - his 10 year pro average was 12 boards a game.
The end of the game is a moot point if we play that Olympics with Swen. Ironically, the player on the initial squad MOST suited to playing Iba's offense.
Obviously, in the photo that's Swen on the left, standing beside the 1932 and 1972/73/74 college players of the year.
With all due respect (although I have been told that is a demeaning phrase by some on the board, in this case I sincerely mean it) I'm not sure Nater would have made that big a difference. I agree Iba's stubbornness was the main problem but his style was the issue, not the team. When he was selected as the coach many knew we were potentially in trouble; his selection negated our biggest advantages, speed and creativity. The American selection of coach was based on an arrogance that it didn't matter who coached and the selection of IBA kept that game close enough for us to be cheated out of the victory.
Yes, but that was my point. Swen could PLAY Iba's style at an incredibly high level. Easily a 5-8 pt difference maker in each game played had he been there (offense/defense & boards combined). Not just a great rebounder, but one of the best OFFESIVE rebounders ever.
And to answer another poster - yes. John Wooden, the "Indiana Rubber Man", was a consensus all American in 1930, 1931 and 1932, led Purdue to the National Championship in 1932, and was named College Player of the Year. 20 years later, he was named as starting guard on the 5 man BBWA "Silver Aniversary" All time collegiate team (1900-1950). He was elected into the Hall of Fame as a player BEFORE he was elected as a coach.
A little known trivia stat: The record for consective free throws made in competition in professional basketball is 134. Held by John Robert Wooden. He was also once the highest paid professional basketball player in the world. Of course times were different in the late 30s....because his salary as a HS english teacher was bolstered by bonuses for coaching Baseball, Golf and Basketball, he could afford to hold out for an unheard of $70 a game for his part-time night-time job with the Indianapolis Kautskeys of the fledgling professional National Basketball League.
A side note on my connection to UCLA and Coach Wooden - my dad, an advertising man from Peoria, was the "public relations department" for Kautskeys - PR for the basketball team, and asst. advertising mgr. for the Kautskey Grocery chain! He and Coach were friends for 35 years till dad passed in 1970.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Great post !
I'll never forget that game. Of course, I'll never forget the Israeli tragedy in Germany of all places.
As others have said about the basketball, it was only a matter of time before our basketball team finally was beaten in the Olympics, and its a shame that we lost the way things went down. I've spoken to some of the players (got to know Kevin Joyce pretty well) about that game & every one of them is still P/Od about the events. Agree that Hank Iba was the wrong coach (didn't he coach our Olympic team many times?), but a number of our top players (Bill Walton, David Thompson) were home for whatever reasons, and we didn't have our best talent in Munich. The kids (now about 60 years old) who did represent us played their hearts out & deserved better. Four years later, Dean Smith took a talented team to Canada & we won pretty easily, because American basketball was head & shoulders better than the foreign product.
A number of people have said & written that Iba should've taken our guys off the court after the game ended for a second time, but the refs threatened him that we would forfeit. Interesting to think if the Olympic officials would've had the guts to do this, but with everything else going on, anything was believable.
As others have said about the basketball, it was only a matter of time before our basketball team finally was beaten in the Olympics, and its a shame that we lost the way things went down. I've spoken to some of the players (got to know Kevin Joyce pretty well) about that game & every one of them is still P/Od about the events. Agree that Hank Iba was the wrong coach (didn't he coach our Olympic team many times?), but a number of our top players (Bill Walton, David Thompson) were home for whatever reasons, and we didn't have our best talent in Munich. The kids (now about 60 years old) who did represent us played their hearts out & deserved better. Four years later, Dean Smith took a talented team to Canada & we won pretty easily, because American basketball was head & shoulders better than the foreign product.
A number of people have said & written that Iba should've taken our guys off the court after the game ended for a second time, but the refs threatened him that we would forfeit. Interesting to think if the Olympic officials would've had the guts to do this, but with everything else going on, anything was believable.
Hank Iba's inflexibility also cost the US team it's best center that year. UCLA's Swen Nater made the team. But Swen suffers (or at least did 40 years ago) from sever insomnia. He wasn't partier or night owl, but he simply couldn't sleep till someimes 6 or 7 am. Iba refused to make any allowance, and cut Swen from the team. Swen would go on to be the ABA's Rookie of the year, a two-time all star, in the NBA's top 25 all time in FG%, and is the only player ever to lead both the ABA and NBA in rebounding. (16.4 per game for ther ABA Spurs, 15.0 for the Clippers) - his 10 year pro average was 12 boards a game.
The end of the game is a moot point if we play that Olympics with Swen. Ironically, the player on the initial squad MOST suited to playing Iba's offense.
Obviously, in the photo that's Swen on the left, standing beside the 1932 and 1972/73/74 college players of the year.
With all due respect (although I have been told that is a demeaning phrase by some on the board, in this case I sincerely mean it) I'm not sure Nater would have made that big a difference. I agree Iba's stubbornness was the main problem but his style was the issue, not the team. When he was selected as the coach many knew we were potentially in trouble; his selection negated our biggest advantages, speed and creativity. The American selection of coach was based on an arrogance that it didn't matter who coached and the selection of IBA kept that game close enough for us to be cheated out of the victory.
Yes, but that was my point. Swen could PLAY Iba's style at an incredibly high level. Easily a 5-8 pt difference maker in each game played had he been there (offense/defense & boards combined). Not just a great rebounder, but one of the best OFFESIVE rebounders ever.
And to answer another poster - yes. John Wooden, the "Indiana Rubber Man", was a consensus all American in 1930, 1931 and 1932, led Purdue to the National Championship in 1932, and was named College Player of the Year. 20 years later, he was named as starting guard on the 5 man BBWA "Silver Aniversary" All time collegiate team (1900-1950). He was elected into the Hall of Fame as a player BEFORE he was elected as a coach.
A little known trivia stat: The record for consective free throws made in competition in professional basketball is 134. Held by John Robert Wooden. He was also once the highest paid professional basketball player in the world. Of course times were different in the late 30s....because his salary as a HS english teacher was bolstered by bonuses for coaching Baseball, Golf and Basketball, he could afford to hold out for an unheard of $70 a game for his part-time night-time job with the Indianapolis Kautskeys of the fledgling professional National Basketball League.
A side note on my connection to UCLA and Coach Wooden - my dad, an advertising man from Peoria, was the "public relations department" for Kautskeys - PR for the basketball team, and asst. advertising mgr. for the Kautskey Grocery chain! He and Coach were friends for 35 years till dad passed in 1970.
Have to agree to disagree, Nater was a fine player and a very good rebounder but I just don't see him making that kind of impact in games with limited possessions. It's not like we got killed on the boards or the people playing center weren't getting rebounds; could he have helped on the lasy play, yes, but so could have Burleson; unfortunately, Iba and his staff forgot he was on the team.
More than okay to disagree with my take. That's what discussion boards are for.
BUT. In that Olympics, our Bigs shot: Mike Bantom 40.3%. Jim Brewer 41.9%. Tom Burleson 37% (Iba didn't forget him, he just sucked in that offense). Tom McMillen 33%. ONLY Jim Forbes among the bigs was effective in Iba's offense. As I noted in my previous post, Nater is in the NBA's top 25 all time FG% at 54% for his more than decade long pro career. I repeat, Swen would have added 5 pts or or more for the US team each game in Iba's schemes had he been there. He was much more Bob Kurland than he was Bill Walton.
BUT. In that Olympics, our Bigs shot: Mike Bantom 40.3%. Jim Brewer 41.9%. Tom Burleson 37% (Iba didn't forget him, he just sucked in that offense). Tom McMillen 33%. ONLY Jim Forbes among the bigs was effective in Iba's offense. As I noted in my previous post, Nater is in the NBA's top 25 all time FG% at 54% for his more than decade long pro career. I repeat, Swen would have added 5 pts or or more for the US team each game in Iba's schemes had he been there. He was much more Bob Kurland than he was Bill Walton.
I was on my honeymoon in Hawaii when this nonsense happened. My wife and I were in Maui, driving on the "Road To Hana", which at the time, was a cliff flirting narrow affair,, and dangerous as all hell. The radio news announces the score of this game and I smack the wheel so hard with my hand, I almost drove off a cliff.
More than okay to disagree with my take. That's what discussion boards are for.
BUT. In that Olympics, our Bigs shot: Mike Bantom 40.3%. Jim Brewer 41.9%. Tom Burleson 37% (Iba didn't forget him, he just sucked in that offense). Tom McMillen 33%. ONLY Jim Forbes among the bigs was effective in Iba's offense. As I noted in my previous post, Nater is in the NBA's top 25 all time FG% at 54% for his more than decade long pro career. I repeat, Swen would have added 5 pts or or more for the US team each game in Iba's schemes had he been there. He was much more Bob Kurland than he was Bill Walton.
Well, it's not like Nater NEVER had a ten game stretch where he didn't shoot well; I'm not a stat guy and I just don't see where you translate career %'s to a short series of games. Besides, with the percentages generally 40% to 55%, the centers would have to shoot 20 times a game to make up 5 points provided the %'s held. Now, I know you can argue he might have gotten an offensive reboubd that someone else scored on but I just don't see that kind of difference; Kareem , Walton, yes, Nater, no.
More than okay to disagree with my take. That's what discussion boards are for.
BUT. In that Olympics, our Bigs shot: Mike Bantom 40.3%. Jim Brewer 41.9%. Tom Burleson 37% (Iba didn't forget him, he just sucked in that offense). Tom McMillen 33%. ONLY Jim Forbes among the bigs was effective in Iba's offense. As I noted in my previous post, Nater is in the NBA's top 25 all time FG% at 54% for his more than decade long pro career. I repeat, Swen would have added 5 pts or or more for the US team each game in Iba's schemes had he been there. He was much more Bob Kurland than he was Bill Walton.
Well, it's not like Nater NEVER had a ten game stretch where he didn't shoot well; I'm not a stat guy and I just don't see where you translate career %'s to a short series of games. Besides, with the percentages generally 40% to 55%, the centers would have to shoot 20 times a game to make up 5 points provided the %'s held. Now, I know you can argue he might have gotten an offensive reboubd that someone else scored on but I just don't see that kind of difference; Kareem , Walton, yes, Nater, no.
Offense, defense, rebounding and FT shooting (all our bigs choked at the line - Swen was a 75% shooter). Again agree to disagree. But you have to remember, Swen would have ZERO trouble with or be intimidated by the Russion bigs. For two years in practice every day, he'd gone head to head with Bill Walton. It's why he exploded the next year from complete unknown to pro All-Star, getting the best of Mel Daniels,Dan Issell, and Artis Gilmore....As you can guess, I have an issue with the way Swen was treated compared to other top centers by the media, and hence the long term perception of his abilities. Check out the 1974 ABA all-star game sometime. Swen led both teams in both scoring with 29 and rebouding with 22 (13 offensive!) against an opposing front line of Artis Gilmore, Dan Issell and Julius Erving. How they gave Gilmore, with his 18 pts and 13 rebs the MVP was INSANE.
More than okay to disagree with my take. That's what discussion boards are for.
BUT. In that Olympics, our Bigs shot: Mike Bantom 40.3%. Jim Brewer 41.9%. Tom Burleson 37% (Iba didn't forget him, he just sucked in that offense). Tom McMillen 33%. ONLY Jim Forbes among the bigs was effective in Iba's offense. As I noted in my previous post, Nater is in the NBA's top 25 all time FG% at 54% for his more than decade long pro career. I repeat, Swen would have added 5 pts or or more for the US team each game in Iba's schemes had he been there. He was much more Bob Kurland than he was Bill Walton.
Well, it's not like Nater NEVER had a ten game stretch where he didn't shoot well; I'm not a stat guy and I just don't see where you translate career %'s to a short series of games. Besides, with the percentages generally 40% to 55%, the centers would have to shoot 20 times a game to make up 5 points provided the %'s held. Now, I know you can argue he might have gotten an offensive reboubd that someone else scored on but I just don't see that kind of difference; Kareem , Walton, yes, Nater, no.
Offense, defense, rebounding and FT shooting (all our bigs choked at the line - Swen was a 75% shooter). Again agree to disagree. But you have to remember, Swen would have ZERO trouble with or be intimidated by the Russion bigs. For two years in practice every day, he'd gone head to head with Bill Walton. It's why he exploded the next year from complete unknown to pro All-Star, getting the best of Mel Daniels,Dan Issell, and Artis Gilmore....As you can guess, I have an issue with the way Swen was treated compared to other top centers by the media, and hence the long term perception of his abilities. Check out the 1974 ABA all-star game sometime. Swen led both teams in both scoring with 29 and rebouding with 22 (13 offensive!) against an opposing front line of Artis Gilmore, Dan Issell and Julius Erving. How they gave Gilmore, with his 18 pts and 13 rebs the MVP was INSANE.
Obviously you are a big Swen fan and so be it, you win.........just another reason for me to hate the Iba selection as coach. A shame really, a great coach in his day but had no business being selected. (I know nater should have been player-coach....just kidding.)